FS7: Red Raven and FS7
- Thread starter Gene Sung
- Start date
starcentral
Veteran
I'm a bit partial to RED. I don't know what it is but I like the look, maybe that they try and emulate film stock more than Sony, but one thing I don't understand is how RED's pricing got so nastily high over time. The RED One was $17.5k and their mantra was rendering obsolescence obsolete but who are they kidding? The camera's now are going for over $36k (EPIC DRAGON) and at one time RED even slashed their RED EPIC prices by almost half when Sony announced the new F series cameras (2012).
They slash and they slash and they slash, but they come out with newer models that go up and up and up.
They slash and they slash and they slash, but they come out with newer models that go up and up and up.
JackCarter
Well-known member
Your wrong, I can't wait to see the footage from Raven and if RED can deliver it at the price they say. ARRI are for serious productions but who wouldn't want one. I think I'd rather have the F65 if I'm honest.
I'm not really familiar with Deakins but I'm going to look at his work more. I think the only films I have seen by him are Skyfall, Courage Under Fire and O Brother so all this is news to me. It's a shame he didn't do Spectre because Skyfall looked so much better. Perhaps Roger is right about 4-5K. I prefer to film in 4K but can I really see a difference unless I pixel peep? I'm undecided on this.
As for his last sentence. Well I actually prefer digital to film now, I realised this on Sunday after watching Spectre and seeing the trailer for The Revenant on a cinema screen.
Seems like the Mag Weapon price is pretty much in line with Sony F55 (what it's competing against). Just looked on B&H and the F55 body is going for $29K and the Mag Weapon is $29.5K, only a $500 difference. I priced out a decent working Mag Weapon kit is $39,000. I figure for the F55, you probably have to spend close to $10K as well to have a decent kit - memory cards, RAW recorder, EVF, batteries, some rigging, etc...
The RED pricing is high at the moment I feel. The strong dollar makes it even more painful. When we got our Epic-M we paid 5.40 for the dollar, now it's 8.63. That's over 50% increase!
We were lucky back then.
Even just last August when we got our Battle Tested Dragon it was 6.40. Still within reason, but now it's crazy expensive for us.
Good thing the Raven came out;-)
We were lucky back then.
Even just last August when we got our Battle Tested Dragon it was 6.40. Still within reason, but now it's crazy expensive for us.
Good thing the Raven came out;-)
If it makes you feel any better Yoak, the Dollar was very weak against all European currencies for 10 years, so during that time when I traveled to Europe it was crazy expensive. I've also bought quite a few European camera gear during that time - Beaulieu, sliders and a few other things and paid through the nose. This past summer was my first time back to Europe in about 4 years and the strong dollar made it pretty affordable for once. I was super thrilled to not come back broke, LOL, as I love Europe.
The strangest thing is European vs USA Arri pricing. The Alexa Mini is priced at E32,000 Euro for Europe which should be about $34,200 dollars, which is somewhat affordable for an Alexa. However, Arri does a crazy artificial inflation of this prices for the United States, so instead of it being $34,200, the USA price is $45,000 - about $11,000 dollars over the actual exchange rate. I asked Arri USA why the massive price penalty? They just said, that's just the USA pricing because they wanted it that way. No real reason.
At least Red is just going by the exchange rate and not crazy artificially inflating the price for certain markets.
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I'd like to know what camera Greg Toland prefers.
Oh and Deakins is an ARRI guy and always has been. Asking him about ARRI vs. Red like asking Michael Jordan about Nike vs. the New Balance.
A fellow norwegian making money speculating in the dollar. Nice
Your Epic will sell for 50% more used though, think about that! Almost no loss of value during ownership.
There are quite a few clips from the various Deakins films on YouTube. One of his most famous cuts is the train robbery from the "Assassination of Jesse James", with the locomotive coming through the forest.
But ... there's a laughable (for my taste) scene in "True Grit" where Jeff Bridges (Rooster Cogburn) is being tried in a local courthouse. His "sunlight in through the window" shot looks so fake, I just had to stop watching it right there (wasn't excited by the film anyway).
In any case, my take on Deakins is that he is horribly inconsistent from film to film and shot to shot compared to Storaro, Hall, Surtees, Cronenwerth, et al.
Ha ha Martin.
Thats another way of looking at it.
@gene
I felt sorry for you guys back then
Guess what goes around comes around. Got spoiled by that weak dollar.
I was lucky enough to travel to the states with work 4-5 times during that period. Shopping was a pleasure then. I was back this January, and the prices were the same as in Norway more or less. At least I didn't spend so much in B&H this time;-)
mans I only bought screws in the RED store.....
back on topic, I'm hoping it will be more easy to talk certain broadcast producers into using the Red when one can offer the Raven with prores.
I like my FS7, but for certain jobs a similar priced Red would be a more fitting camera
Thats another way of looking at it.
@gene
I felt sorry for you guys back then
Guess what goes around comes around. Got spoiled by that weak dollar.
I was lucky enough to travel to the states with work 4-5 times during that period. Shopping was a pleasure then. I was back this January, and the prices were the same as in Norway more or less. At least I didn't spend so much in B&H this time;-)
mans I only bought screws in the RED store.....
back on topic, I'm hoping it will be more easy to talk certain broadcast producers into using the Red when one can offer the Raven with prores.
I like my FS7, but for certain jobs a similar priced Red would be a more fitting camera
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JackCarter
Well-known member
I just like the look of Skyfall. Have a look at some of that lighting in the Chinese skyscraper. The only reason I was researching Deakins was when I watched Spectre I thought it looked old and analogue in comparison. I think that has to do with much of Spectre being shot on film. I'm not a Cohen brothers fan at all so that's why I've not seen much of his work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUyrRn-9rEQ
Surf it Mike
Well-known member
Also look up the "Assassination of Jesse James" a modern cinema classic.
Ben Scott
Veteran
Good God, there are actually people criticising Roger Deakins as a cinematographer on here and there are people in the visual arts here who don't really know his work...
What a world.
And as for Red stills
http://www.red.com/shot-on-red/photography
What a world.
And as for Red stills
http://www.red.com/shot-on-red/photography
Ben Scott
Veteran
Brilliant piece of work this. All done on the stage at Pinewood and it works wonderfully.
Matthew Quinn
Active member
DSMC = Digital STILL + MOTION camera
they take amazing photos, many magazine covers and billboards use red cameras to take stills
they take amazing photos, many magazine covers and billboards use red cameras to take stills
Bern Caughey
Veteran
There are a number of cameras better suited for shooting stills professionally. RED for stills is more gimmick then best practices.
starcentral
Veteran
I posted this back on page 20 or so, can anyone tell if it was shot on a stills camera or video camera?
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Stills often rely on rocket fast AF and strobe lights - I cant see any point in using a motion camera for stills except if you need HFR.
S
S
Clermond
Veteran
Exactly. I always had the impression this was pushed, sponsored or even paid by RED.
I know some high rated international advertising photographers in person and I have a close look
on this market - and I do not know any photographer who is specialized in still photos
doing his daily work with a RED