Red One & 5D & AF100

Ticheli

Ticheli

Well-known member
Disclaimer: I do not now nor have I every worked for any camera company or been offered or received anything of value from them. I do not sell cameras and rent my personal cameras very, very, very rarely and only to one or two guys, this out of friendship, not business.

Here's a look at some shots with the Red One, 5DMkII, and pre-production AF100. This is NOT a perfect test; some shots are of different subjects, some with different lenses, however I believe there is much to be learned from this sequence.

Most of the Red shots are with the Cooke 18-100, the 5D shots are with the Canon 24-70, the AF100 with Zeiss Standards.

Make your own evaluation, but there are some things I would like to point out. Note the banding in the pretty girl chart from one of the cameras. Note the moire produced by the same camera on the resolution chart. These artifacts are job destroyers. Unacceptable. On the other hand, some of the shots with this camera are beautiful; it's like having a pet rattlesnake, you just never know when it's going to bite you.

Note the way one of the cameras goes into clip; not as bad as I've seen in other tests, but certainly something to watch out for. I believe this can be controlled through lighting and camera setup. You can see it on the yellow plastic Kodak box; I surely could have mitigated this by pulling the level down with a net. I can see it on the flower shot as well.

One of the cameras does everything extraordinarily well, a direct replacement for 35MM film; one does a very, very good job and with just a little care can do almost any job, the third camera can do a good job under ideal circumstances, but can produce unacceptable, deal-killing shots, and sometimes unexpectedly.

I went back to the AF100 table top shot looking for a better focus section, but all I can find is one where the closest objects are sharp; I've included it. Sorry I don't have one that perfectly matches the AF100 shot, but note the silver dollar coin; I think it looks really good and shows what the Red can do.

Santa is on his way; I hope he is good to one and all.

Here's the link: http://www.vimeo.com/18121646

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Where did you get that 10 Mark bill from? ahh those were the days ...:-) To me all xyz looked fine and if your intention is to say, af100 is good enuff I agree. these are exciting times, similar to what happened to the music industry when MIDI was invented/standardized in the early 80s. we can now afford to buy a camera with a huge single sensor that gives us possibilities we dreamt of 10 years ago. I enjoy witnessing it!
 
I'll tell you what I'm learning from this; the Red is superior in every way except size, weight, and the requirement to change glass filters. The latter is not trivial; pulling out of the case, cleaning, and fitting takes time; sure just a few moments, but over the course of a shoot day it adds up to enough to cost you the time to do a shot or two, to forego more coverage, or even miss the peak of magic hour.

I believe the AF100 is good enough and "nifty" enough that I'll really enjoy shooting with it, but if I'm in the studio all day on the dolly or doing green screen, I want the Red hands down. When the Epic arrives, the AF100 will have only two real advantages; the filter wheel and low price. For some shoots, those are the deciding factors; for others, they are meaningless.

I do have one bias; I despise the 5DMkII. It's a kludge. It can ruin a shot. No camera that can overheat and shut down in normal use is a worthy professional tool. Yes, I know some really beautiful work has been done with the 5D, but it's my very last choice. All it's really got going for it is the cool factor it currently enjoys.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Adam J McKay said:
So RED is out then? :)
Click to expand...

Give that man a cigar... for humor!

Red will overheat if you're shooting in a very harsh environment, but so will many cameras. It's the 5D that can't work all day in moderate temperatures. I know people who carry a spare body and just slap it on when the primary overheats. The problem is that the image starts to deteriorate before the camera gives up. If you don't spot it, well, you know...

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Upon further review, I did get something of value from Panasonic; well, not really from Panasonic, but what I did get is the chance to spend the day and work with Barry Green. An honor and privilege.

By the way, Barry likes barbecue.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Ticheli said:
... the 5DMkII. It's a kludge. ... All it's really got going for it is the cool factor it currently enjoys.
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Hardly. If the 5D were "cool" and didn't deliver image quality, nobody would be using it. I think it's pretty simple math - for people who use and ask for the 5D and 7D, their choice is based on the end product (image) divided by cost and time. If that equation is the "cool factor" then OK.

If the AF100 for example managed to surpass the image quality of the 5D and 7D, then, maybe the million (or so) that are in use will be cast aside.

Part of why film is almost completely dead, I'd say, has to do with cost and time (loading, unloading, scratch testing, transport, processing, transfer, dailies, dust busting, etc.) Budget is becoming more and more the determining factor, and when you can squeeze footage out of a $2,500. camera body that looks like it was shot on 35mm film (to a layman), that's something a little more than what you could call a "cool factor" especially for producers looking to produce commercials that will have a limited lifespan.
 
This test reveals to me the obvious based on the price point and technical specs of each camera. It's seems to me that :
- If you can afford a RED and deal with it's size and requirements it's spectacular.
- For 1/5th the price of a current RED ONE the AF100 is amazing and will be nipping at RED's heals on many jobs. (particularly for those working in 1080 commercial work that almost if never work on films).
- HDSLR's are great for many jobs but sadly have image issues that often pop up unexpectedly.
 
Well, the reason I think Z is the 5D is because of the fact that the shots are different and the last post of the comparison was from the x-y AF100 vs RED. If the 5D is not Z, you have done a great job throwing people off :-)
 
Kit Hannah said:
Well, the reason I think Z is the 5D is because of the fact that the shots are different and the last post of the comparison was from the x-y AF100 vs RED. If the 5D is not Z, you have done a great job throwing people off :-)
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sorry kit, but look at the Moire the Y produces on both the photo shot of the female face and the test chart. the AF100 is pretty good on moire and would never produce it that bad on both shots. the 5d is defacto "Y" i guarantee you.......
 
Aliasing issues aside, they all look very nicely blended in this web trailer.

On a higher quality source I can imagine the differences being more blatant. With the amount of data captured from the Red One, pre-processing and choice of downscaling algorithm will probably make it possible to elevate the quality clearly beyond the other two cameras. It does look like the AF100 is hitting the right marks.
 
I'm certain it's

x- Red
y- 5D
z-af100

...As there is a comparison of the woman blowing bubbles which I remember seeing which was between the 5D and the red, and the shot after is of a woman turning around, plus it's kind of apparent from the DOF. Plus the bill shots are the same from his last video, except two new one's the 5D and a new Red one. Though I could be grossly mistaken and remembering some of this wrong.

have a good one
 
LOL, maybe Leo switched certain shots around just to mess with everybody... x with the bill shot may not be x with the bubbles?
 
Kit Hannah said:
LOL, maybe Leo switched certain shots around just to mess with everybody... x with the bill shot may not be x with the bubbles?
Click to expand...

well then that would just be a jerk move..... just kidding I guess it would be funny... "it was all shot on a handycam", no chance, still the whole bait and switch can be good to shake up a group who gets too picky without actually being able to tell the difference. For example a friend's dad had a friend who thought he was a wine connoisseur, so they had a taste test, from 10 dollar bottles up to hundreds, he couldn't place any of them, he couldn't even tell if it was a Merlot or whatever lets just say he's not the wine guy in the group anymore. We tried it with vodka and a friend he picked out four different brands on the first go.
 
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