RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

Razz16mm said:
Some get frustrated with Red’s long, slow, and public beta cycles. But these early pre-release cameras and software are pushed out to select shooters and third parties so the necessary support equipment, software, and workflow are pretty well debugged and ready for prime time when the camera is released.
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I think the select shooters in this case also include random people willing to pay for it. [I think he genuinely would like people to use them well and help so that's nice.]

I e-mailed JL (like he asked for those interested) and was added to the weekly e-mail chain several weeks back and I could have purchased the yellow one, but waiting to see what the next color is.

My entire life I was an early adopter of everything so I'm very in tune with companies working like this, but haven't followed this camera enough to know about any file incompatibility issues since 99% of the time any software will simply not recognize new or different structure.
 
NorBro said:
I think the select shooters in this case also include random people willing to pay for it. [I think he genuinely would like people to use them well and help so that's nice.]

I e-mailed JL (like he asked for those interested) and was added to the weekly e-mail chain several weeks back and I could have purchased the yellow one, but waiting to see what the next color is.

My entire life I was an early adopter of everything so I'm very in tune with companies working like this, but haven't followed this camera enough to know about any file incompatibility issues since 99% of the time any software will simply not recognize new or different structure.
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And honestly, right now is a good time to get in on a "beta program", because not that many people are shooting real work right now, so there is time to really beat and bang and test and devote to shaking down/out a camera without the consequences that could accompany doing it on a paid job(even though there have already been early prototypes used on real shoots).
 
Yeah, the baby dragon is definitely getting put through the wringer. Burned, blown up, crashed, frozen...

Komodo-On-Fire2_+TeamSiqfuti.jpg


Expecting to see the Mother of Dragons walk naked out of the fire with Komodos on her shoulders.:shocked:
 
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Razz16mm said:
Some get frustrated with Red’s long, slow, and public beta cycles. But these early pre-release cameras and software are pushed out to select shooters and third parties so the necessary support equipment, software, and workflow are pretty well debugged and ready for prime time when the camera is released.
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That sounds good in theory....

But...

Not in practice in my experience. There's still issues once it's in r"official" release, and then the response tends to become...just wait for the next firmware cycle....and so it goes...

JB
(Yes, I've shot most RED variants ever since the beginning)
 
Run&Gun said:
There’s also the even deeper interconnection for those of us that wear self-winding mechanical watches.
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Yes, I have some automatics, some mechanical wind and some quartz. The quartz watches are usually the most accurate but the automatics are the ones with the coolest, most impressive movements. If all I care about is telling time then a quartz is probably the way to go, but that's not the only point, right?
 
Mitch Gross said:
If all I care about is telling time then a quartz is probably the way to go, but that's not the only point, right?
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To continue the analogy with filmmaking, the audience only cares to know what time it is (ie they just want to see the captured image). They won't witness the machine behind the scenes. Which experience do we care about, ours making the film or theirs viewing it?
 
AndreeOnline said:
James, over the last few days and discussions, I think we have gotten a good grip on where we both stand on the current situation. I get where you're coming from in your urgency to push for better gear. But I can't help feeling that you're slamming the lid down pretty hard on what essentially is a momentary window of relative happiness where many of us feel we can get stuff done without blaming gear or external factors for not reaching our vision.

We've lived through and overcome excessive aliasing and moiré, lack of resolved detail and dynamic range (reflected light) and recently we've also busted through compressed codecs and limited frame rates.

Some of us are simply saying: "Look at that, a glass with some wine in it! Let's drink and sing!"

We're not really talking about the glass so much, or the amount of wine in it. From the top down it might actually only be half full.

Yesterday I wanted to check for myself and metered a bright cloudy sky through my hallway window and then a backpack in the hallway with no light falling on it. It was 10.5 stops of DR difference and the camera could hold that no problem. Today's cameras aren't perfect, as has been said in many various ways, but I think the first mountain of 'in-your-face' IQ weaknesses has been climbed.

A simple expression of joy over this, or the minimal flickering flame of hope that represents this, need not be snuffed out. I'm not worried that manufacturers will stop their quest for perfection. Let me reassure you that my inbox here is promisingly empty from any inquiry from ANY manufacturer asking me to "tell them more" about what I want. The only time Canon reached out to me was when I came 'to close for comfort' describing their firmware updating process for the 1Dc. They asked me to remove that post... so, yeah...

Like you, I'm looking forward to more camera with more DR, global shutter or less rolling shutter and large, nice sensors. To this we can add better integration of assist tools like AF, scopes, lit buttons, better grips or ND filters. Why not more efficient power solutions and faster but cheaper media. Audio?

I'm sure we'll get there someday.
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Sorry.
You are usually so logical about your positions, i didn’t realize you had an emotional reason not mentioned.

Yes, enjoy all cameras.
 
ahalpert said:
To continue the analogy with filmmaking, the audience only cares to know what time it is (ie they just want to see the captured image). They won't witness the machine behind the scenes. Which experience do we care about, ours making the film or theirs viewing it?
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Both. Does the person that asks me for the time care about anything except that information? No. But as the person wearing the watch that gave them the time, I most certainly care about not only the time, but also the experience of wearing it and using it.
 
ahalpert said:
To continue the analogy with filmmaking, the audience only cares to know what time it is (ie they just want to see the captured image). They won't witness the machine behind the scenes. Which experience do we care about, ours making the film or theirs viewing it?
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Well I for one hate to waste my time fighting crappy equipment to struggle to get to the resultI want as opposed to having my gear work smoothly the way I wish so that I can concentrate on other things. In the end I will be able to make a better product because of this. So yeah, there is end value to this.
 
One could also state that a bucket of gruel and vitamin supplements can provide all the nutrients one needs, is a fancy meal really necessary?
 
Mitch Gross said:
I can appreciate the craft and quality behind a Breitling but for my personal sensibilities I'd be hard-pressed to invest in something more expensive than a decent Seiko or equivalent.
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The first thing I noted when I picked up my GMT Master II: OK so now my priciest watch is also my least precise one—at least in terms of telling time.

But as has been noted: these watches are not about that per se.

What I didn't expect or consider was that the value of the watch would increase over time like a collector's item. It might have been a possibility, but it didn't factor into the buying decision. Still, it makes the term "expensive" relative.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Well I for one hate to waste my time fighting crappy equipment to struggle to get to the resultI want as opposed to having my gear work smoothly the way I wish so that I can concentrate on other things. In the end I will be able to make a better product because of this. So yeah, there is end value to this.
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I completely agree, although I think those are performance enhancements on set (like the independent LUT switches on the CD you mentioned). They help you work better and faster.

But it doesn't seem to me that the fancier watches with more complex mechanisms help you tell time faster and easier. (I dont know anything about watches.)

You mentioned that a quartz watch or a simple timex would be most accurate and you dont have to wind it, etc. So, I dont see how the fancier watches offer performance enhancements. If anything, it's the opposite. But, if you have to wear a watch, why not wear one that brings you joy, right? And sparks your imagination with its mechanism.

I could see the same argument being made for cameras. But come on - people break their backs and their wrists and their necks shooting handheld. And burn out their eyes staring at screens. All that can be improved. But we put up with a lot of punishment in the service of images that will please others. Our comfort is secondary.

As for gruel - I think there are unknown facets of nutrition and interactions that probably make a good steak taste better to us. But either way, the consumer in that case is analogous to the audience. And the cameraman/chef wants to serve them a gourmet meal even if we burn our hands in the kitchen.

Personally, I would love to have a beautifully designed camera to work with. I like my S1 and my GH5. I like the design and ease of use.

Now, Leica - they make beautiful cameras. But I've never met a cameraman who used one as his main camera because the price increase is not matched by performance increase. I met one who had a cheaper Leica body he used occasionally. I've heard that Leica lenses are called "lawyer lenses." They make great lenses and cameras, but the cameramen I know don't care enough about design to fork over the money for the experience of using them.
 
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A commercial photographer friend I’ve shot a few 16mm film projects with over the years used nothing but Leicas and Hasselblads. But that market used to pay much better than it does these days.

Like video production the mid level photography business has suffered from digital dilution.

He still has a Hassie digital and a Phase One for hobby cams though. :happy:

I still have the first camera I ever bought. A Leica 3-G screw mount range finder. It was hands down my favorite people shooter. Used it extensively documenting gala openings for the social press at an art museum where I worked. Very unobtrusive and quiet at public events. I could be invisible and get some great candid shots of the glitterati.
 
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Mitch Gross said:
Well I for one hate to waste my time fighting crappy equipment to struggle to get to the resultI want as opposed to having my gear work smoothly the way I wish so that I can concentrate on other things. In the end I will be able to make a better product because of this. So yeah, there is end value to this.
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Mitch Gross said:
One could also state that a bucket of gruel and vitamin supplements can provide all the nutrients one needs, is a fancy meal really necessary?
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Exactly.
 
ahalpert said:
I completely agree, although I think those are performance enhancements on set (like the independent LUT switches on the CD you mentioned). They help you work better and faster.

But it doesn't seem to me that the fancier watches with more complex mechanisms help you tell time faster and easier. (I dont know anything about watches.)

You mentioned that a quartz watch or a simple timex would be most accurate and you dont have to wind it, etc. So, I dont see how the fancier watches offer performance enhancements. If anything, it's the opposite. But, if you have to wear a watch, why not wear one that brings you joy, right? And sparks your imagination with its mechanism.

I could see the same argument being made for cameras. But come on - people break their backs and their wrists and their necks shooting handheld. And burn out their eyes staring at screens. All that can be improved. But we put up with a lot of punishment in the service of images that will please others. Our comfort is secondary.

As for gruel - I think there are unknown facets of nutrition and interactions that probably make a good steak taste better to us. But either way, the consumer in that case is analogous to the audience. And the cameraman/chef wants to serve them a gourmet meal even if we burn our hands in the kitchen.

Personally, I would love to have a beautifully designed camera to work with. I like my S1 and my GH5. I like the design and ease of use.

Now, Leica - they make beautiful cameras. But I've never met a cameraman who used one as his main camera because the price increase is not matched by performance increase. I met one who had a cheaper Leica body he used occasionally. I've heard that Leica lenses are called "lawyer lenses." They make great lenses and cameras, but the cameramen I know don't care enough about design to fork over the money for the experience of using them.
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Lotsa variables, just like with everything else. Years ago when I was at the racetrack shooting every weekend, I wanted a tough watch that I wouldn’t worry about so I wouldn’t have to wear my more expensive and nicer ones in that rough environment. I ordered a Casio G-Shock. Light powered, quartz movement and synced time over the air so you never had to worry about if it was wound or changing batteries and accuracy was going to be dead-nuts-on plus of course it was tough-as-nails. The only problem: I couldn’t read the face and hands. The design was so poor that even with 20/20(corrected at the time) I could not just glance down and tell the time. Even staring at it, it was almost impossible. The one and main purpose it was for, even with all that technology and thought put into it, it was absolutely horrible at doing.

Of course, it immediately went back.
 
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Razz16mm said:
I still have the first camera I ever bought. A Leica 3-G screw mount range finder. It was hands down my favorite people shooter. Used it extensively documenting gala openings for the social press at an art museum where I worked. Very unobtrusive and quiet at public events. I could be invisible and get some great candid shots of the glitterati.
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For some reason, the Leica rangefinders have a super power.

I own many cameras.

What i notice when I shoot Leica M is that people react differently. The subjects are different. And it forces you to shoot differently.

That's what Leica does. Not all the unicorn pixie dust mumbo jumbo about their lenses and optics, though I do also appreciate them.

For a long time I resisted using one. A director friend "challenged" me to shoot with one for a week block and the thing I found most amazing, was how it changed my creative process in making photographic choices.

JB
 
AndreeOnline said:
The first thing I noted when I picked up my GMT Master II: OK so now my priciest watch is also my least precise one—at least in terms of telling time.

But as has been noted: these watches are not about that per se.

What I didn't expect or consider was that the value of the watch would increase over time like a collector's item. It might have been a possibility, but it didn't factor into the buying decision. Still, it makes the term "expensive" relative.
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Wait, you have a GMT Master II? What was all that feel-y stuff about cheap cameras?
 
John Brawley said:
For some reason, the Leica rangefinders have a super power.

JB
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That may be true. But I'm sure you can engineer a rangefinder with small lenses for less money. Even a MFT camera with small lenses might have a similar effect on subjects, no? Although you wouldn't shoot with it like a rangefinder.

Did anyone see the Leica Tank Man ad that got them banned in China? It's been taken down.

Great ad showing Leica shooters (actors) venturing into various warzones and having guns pointed at their heads point-blank. You've gotta be a man to shoot Leica! It culminates with a snapper taking the Tank Man photo in Tianamen Square with a Leica camera he had hidden from the state police who just ransacked his hotel room.

The only problem is that all the different angles shot of Tank Man were shot on Nikon cameras!
 
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