RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

I've been playing with Phil Holland's short sample Komodo R3D to test workflow. Some sample grades:

IPP2-metadata straight out of camera @5600K contrast medium, highlight soft roll off
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Grade 1: 4800K color temp, IPP2 low contrast, soft roll off, CDL and alchemy group adjustments
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Grade 2: Same as grade 1 with film grain added.
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Camera metadata IPP2 high contrast transforms cycling through highlight roll off options, no other adjustments:

1: no rolloff
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2: hard roll off
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3: medium roll off
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4: soft roll off
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5: very soft roll off
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Note: The JPEG compression through Flickr to here tend to not show the more subtle differences.
 
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For me the aesthetic preference for RED comes down to three things beyond posted specs: Codec, color science, and workflow. In the case of Komodo there is one huge addition to those: global shutter.
The only reason I have never owned one is price. I'm not making a living with paid commercial work anymore. My cameras are for personal creative use only. Serious hobby cams.
Komodo may be the first Red I can even consider owning from a price stand point and that is largely because I already have everything needed to complete the kit except the body, media, and a couple of lens adapters.
 
I think you're right on the money. If it made more sense to me from a personal business perspective, I'd be getting one, too. Interesting grading variations. Definitely more subtle tones in the flickr jpg as here the highlight in his forehead can get flattened out. Looks good
 
stewhem said:
Hi James. I said "good image", not perfect. And how good depends on so many factors. Like single crew with no time to light or even add reflectors up to big budget stuff where you light almost as much as you want/need. Etc.

I think the main problem we have in the real world is holding highlights. Like the proverbial outside window view in a darkish room. And I agree, at the moment cameras, all of them, are just ok at that but for most situations I haven't found my cameras too limiting for a few years now. I admit to having to be quite innovative with camera angles and think faster than I can normally manage on a few occasions but mostly I get the image I want. Would I prefer another ten stops of DR? You bet.
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The phrase often comes up, “ if we can't get a good image out of them then we need more lessons.” if that has ever been true, it has been true since the beginning of photography. People have been getting amazing images with cameras regardless of the technology. It isn’t like cameras just got good, and now it is on the photographers, NO! Cameras have always had some limits. MiniDV was a very fun medium. So many beautiful images made with those cameras. Ansel Adams was referenced earlier. I mean, we as photographers sell eachother short. We are good at what we do.

Here’s another side of it. Some people ENJOY pixel peeping and are content just buying each new upgrade. Like someone collecting cards, comic books, wines, or watches and pouring and obsessing about all the fine changes. We shouldn’t demonize the hobby. It is a fun hobby. A past time. Let’s not ridicule people that want to have a camera hobby. Many of them are very bright and even teach photographers about cameras even.

Saying that cameras are good enough, is not any different than all the previous decades. Cameras by default are always “the best they’ve ever been”. But we can and should unite and push manufacturers towards what we want. And being told that things like DR and global shutter don’t matter just means that we get “resolution wars”, because nothing else matters enough to buyers. Photographers fall in line, because admitting they don’t like a camera somehow means they aren’t good enough.

When we just stop saying what we want, we get resolution wars. It is so important for us to discuss what we want, so that others can also relate and hopefully camera manufacturers will make cameras base on things we value. For now, only Red and Arri were attempting it. The Komodo does feel like the culmination of things wished for on DVXuser, AND it is created by Jarred Land, the DVXuser. That is what happens when a camera lover gets to make their own cameras. We have a classic hasselblad form factor, good DR, super sampled 4K via 6K raw, global shutter, 2K prores option, the list goes on. I think we hate on RED a lot, but if you were ever on dvxuser back when Jarred was around, you’d know he is actually passionate about cameras and camera community. And i am not talking about RED as a company or its history, i am just talking about Jarred, a fellow dvxuser that is in charge of a camera company.




Anyways, here is what makes the camera made by a fellow DVXuser exciting: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBdf1MFBzsb/?igshid=a4w3mzyxgaxw



This won’t be the last camera improvement, and hopefully we see even better cameras very soon. We can both be excited about current cameras and wish they were better. Because They still need some improvement. In particular on the highlights.

If the camera manufacturing world was as competitive as the photographer world, we'd have flying cars by now.
 
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Komodo will support 12G 4K/60 SDI out too for Prores as well as recording it internally. We don't know the full details yet, but apparently there may be a dual boot selection, one for raw and one for Prores (no Prores raw).
 
Razz16mm said:
Komodo will support 12G 4K/60 SDI out too for Prores as well as recording it internally. We don't know the full details yet, but apparently there may be a dual boot selection, one for raw and one for Prores (no Prores raw).
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They are saying that the 7.2V batteries are a dual edge sword, on the one hand they force more conservative power use, and on the other, no going to get the more intensive features that might draw more power. The off shoot benefit is likely lower heat generation too, meaning quieter camera.

Seems like a good set of compromises for a camera that is helping round out the Red eco system. And its price point , size, and image quality will likely draw a lot of A cam use. There just isn’t any other camera in that form factor with that image quality and global shutter anywhere, let alone under $10K.

I am liking the shaky cam inside the cars. No wobble or jello is nice. I’ve done a small bit of russain arm style stuff, and these smaller cameras in a shotover would be a huge benefit to car work.
 
Pat Forestell said:
Great, awaiting Adorama to stock it.
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Also, consider Texas Media Systems. They’ve actually supported the DVXuser forum. Not sure how sponsors work now. But Terry Nixon has always made something work. No complaints. Can be nice to have a person who understands the industry sometimes. At least DM him and see what is possible before going through the mega photo-stores.
 
Run&Gun said:
I'll be surprised if we see availability of regular production model's before August, presuming no more delays due to CV, etc.
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Yeah, in California, the numbers weren’t really going down, but economic pressure is causing things to open up, but Covid numbers are increasing again, so, we’ll see how this goes, for all of us.
 
Gave it some punch. This R3D is very unresponsive for me in FCP X. Some settings didn't work, wouldn't change. Tried some older files from the Raven and they worked perfectly, so smooth. The 2nd and 3rd image look similar, but some colors on the chart completely changed.

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____________
____________
____________

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If y'all think that the camera community is overly obsessive with buying the latest/greatest gear even if the stuff isn't really used, you need to check out the supercar world. Most owners of vehicles such as Ferrari, McLaren, Bugatti, Koenigsegg, etc. barely drive their vehicles. In fact I believe the latest McLaren has a display indicator noting how many days of battery life it has because the company knows the vehicle will spend most of its time sitting in a garage waiting to be used. These cars cost hundreds of thousands into the millions to purchase, and they are far more fetishized than any RED camera. Some of them have huge resale trade value, but many do not. You can go on YouTube and Instagram to find tons of videos showing how people go gaga over these machines -- way more than any unboxing videos of the latest RED camera. Such cars sell for vastly more money than any camera and for several of them the volume of total units sold per year is higher than cameras sold by RED.

All in all the RED culture is not that extreme a fandom. Honestly the lifestyle branding of RED has encouraged many enthusiasts and that's just what the world is. Good for them on finding a successful way to market their product to a larger community. While most people here would sooner purchase a practical utility vehicle such as a midsized SUV, this does not negate the guy who owns a family car as well as an expensive toy he keeps in the garage. You might not feel the same about your tools, but then again I know people who have basic Craftsman tool sets that they keep in handcrafted racks in their workshops, eve if they are the only ones who will ever see those wrenches. I don't have to understand it, but it is real and to those people it gives satisfaction. Most importantly, it drives the manufacturers to continue to try to improve the quality of their products.
 
James0b57 said:
We need to stop saying this, at least on DVXuser.
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James, over the last few days and discussions, I think we have gotten a good grip on where we both stand on the current situation. I get where you're coming from in your urgency to push for better gear. But I can't help feeling that you're slamming the lid down pretty hard on what essentially is a momentary window of relative happiness where many of us feel we can get stuff done without blaming gear or external factors for not reaching our vision.

We've lived through and overcome excessive aliasing and moiré, lack of resolved detail and dynamic range (reflected light) and recently we've also busted through compressed codecs and limited frame rates.

Some of us are simply saying: "Look at that, a glass with some wine in it! Let's drink and sing!"

We're not really talking about the glass so much, or the amount of wine in it. From the top down it might actually only be half full.

Yesterday I wanted to check for myself and metered a bright cloudy sky through my hallway window and then a backpack in the hallway with no light falling on it. It was 10.5 stops of DR difference and the camera could hold that no problem. Today's cameras aren't perfect, as has been said in many various ways, but I think the first mountain of 'in-your-face' IQ weaknesses has been climbed.

A simple expression of joy over this, or the minimal flickering flame of hope that represents this, need not be snuffed out. I'm not worried that manufacturers will stop their quest for perfection. Let me reassure you that my inbox here is promisingly empty from any inquiry from ANY manufacturer asking me to "tell them more" about what I want. The only time Canon reached out to me was when I came 'to close for comfort' describing their firmware updating process for the 1Dc. They asked me to remove that post... so, yeah...

Like you, I'm looking forward to more camera with more DR, global shutter or less rolling shutter and large, nice sensors. To this we can add better integration of assist tools like AF, scopes, lit buttons, better grips or ND filters. Why not more efficient power solutions and faster but cheaper media. Audio?

I'm sure we'll get there someday.
 
Maybe I'm gullible (ok, I know sometimes I am) but there's an interesting bit on Red User (hope it's ok to say that) about the benefits of global shutter. I still won't decide on my next camera, probably between the C300/3 and Komodo, until I can use both and compare handling, images, etc but GS does seem to be a step in the right direction.

I think one of the worst traps we can fall into is to get tribal over the brand we use. I'm a confirmed agnostic having switched brands regularly over many years since film and then Betacam times, and will always happily abandon any piece of gear that IMO can be improved on. If (big IF at the moment) GS is demonstrably better then I'll buy one, other criteria being equal. YMMV
 
stewhem said:
Maybe I'm gullible (ok, I know sometimes I am) but there's an interesting bit on Red User (hope it's ok to say that) about the benefits of global shutter. I still won't decide on my next camera, probably between the C300/3 and Komodo, until I can use both and compare handling, images, etc but GS does seem to be a step in the right direction.

I think one of the worst traps we can fall into is to get tribal over the brand we use. I'm a confirmed agnostic having switched brands regularly over many years since film and then Betacam times, and will always happily abandon any piece of gear that IMO can be improved on. If (big IF at the moment) GS is demonstrably better then I'll buy one, other criteria being equal. YMMV
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Well said
 
Mitch Gross said:
If y'all think that the camera community is overly obsessive with buying the latest/greatest gear even if the stuff isn't really used, you need to check out the supercar world. Most owners of vehicles such as Ferrari, McLaren, Bugatti, Koenigsegg, etc. barely drive their vehicles. In fact I believe the latest McLaren has a display indicator noting how many days of battery life it has because the company knows the vehicle will spend most of its time sitting in a garage waiting to be used. These cars cost hundreds of thousands into the millions to purchase, and they are far more fetishized than any RED camera. Some of them have huge resale trade value, but many do not. You can go on YouTube and Instagram to find tons of videos showing how people go gaga over these machines -- way more than any unboxing videos of the latest RED camera. Such cars sell for vastly more money than any camera and for several of them the volume of total units sold per year is higher than cameras sold by RED.

All in all the RED culture is not that extreme a fandom. Honestly the lifestyle branding of RED has encouraged many enthusiasts and that's just what the world is. Good for them on finding a successful way to market their product to a larger community. While most people here would sooner purchase a practical utility vehicle such as a midsized SUV, this does not negate the guy who owns a family car as well as an expensive toy he keeps in the garage. You might not feel the same about your tools, but then again I know people who have basic Craftsman tool sets that they keep in handcrafted racks in their workshops, eve if they are the only ones who will ever see those wrenches. I don't have to understand it, but it is real and to those people it gives satisfaction. Most importantly, it drives the manufacturers to continue to try to improve the quality of their products.
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So true.


 
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