Red comment on: obsolescence - modularity - inclusiveness

D

dalen7

Member
Red can you comment on the obsolescence, modularity, & inclusiveness of the Red One?

It is my understanding that if I buy a Red One camera, that from now, until God knows when, if you have new technology I can plug it in this camera.
(This is the impression that I have gathered from various interviews, comments, etc. from Jim)

Is this indeed the case?
If so, this means if you come out (if) with an optical view finder it will work itself into my Red One? (although one comment made it sound like, if it came at all, it would be for another model soley.)

This topic is being bounced around different forums, and I would love clarification from the red team specifically about this. How modular & inclusive & obsolescent proof is this?

peace

dalen
 
I'm curious about this question, also. What, specifically, about the camera is designed to be modular? To what degree are these cameras "future proof"?

I'm reminded of the Valentine 1 radar detector. Mike Valentine makes the best unit in the business, and backs up the product with an ongoing upgrade program for early customers. The price of the upgrade depends on what parts are required.

http://www.valentine1.com/upgrades/
 
Great question. While the sensor, high speed output and much of the camera is ungradeable, adding an optical finder will be a trick to accomplish. A mechanical shutter would absolutely require a new body.

Jim
 
Hey Jim, thanks for stopping by.

I guess it's a matter of beting your chips in a new small LCD that could display a decent resolution, or going for the method of the Optical viewfinder/see the recorded image at the lab. If the display can't show an accurate picture, then I too would prefer the optical reflex "approximation".
 
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I guess that access to the sensor and processor is through the LCD touchscreen.

What about the sound?

Maybe the touch screen should be detachable or you could have a second LCD for monitoring sound.

To be honest Jannard the LCD looks like a legacy feature. (Fold and flip???) Maybe the LCD should be a little more adaptable. A basic option which plugs in and connects via the mounting points but which can be upgraded and daisy chainned ??

Thanks.
 
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jaques said:
To be honest Jannard the LCD looks like a legacy feature. (Fold and flip???) Maybe the LCD should be a little more adaptable. A basic option which plugs in and connects via the mounting points but which can be upgraded and daisy chainned ??

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I was pondering that to.
depending on how its done, and what the future holds, it could be legacy...

Someone mentioned that it is not widescreen...yet I assume that it is in its current form to accomodate the various sizes from 4k to the low end stuff it shoots. (is there any merit to this statement?) Plus there is overscan in it, not sure this affects the shape of it or not.

Peace

dalen
 
LCD is removable from the side and can go anywhere on a cage you want. We have a VERY COOL focus assist aid that I can't talk about now. You can easily add an EVF if you want or large monitor. All the above solutions would be cheaper than a mechanical shutter and optical finder.

Jim
 
taubkin said:
Hey Jim, thanks for stopping by.

I guess it's a matter of beting your chips in a new small LCD that could display a decent resolution, or going for the method of the Optical viewfinder/see the recorded image at the lab. If the display can't show an accurate picture, then I too would prefer the optical reflex "approximation".
Click to expand...

I guess I have always taken it for granted that things should be WYSIWYG.
But it seems this isnt the case...never realized it was that complicated of an issue.

Heres hoping that the displays turn out good and give you what you want.
By all means, please put some kind of reference point as to what the actual size is.
i.e. when I used the canon xl1 when it first came out, i shot an interview, framing it perfectly, then when I edited it, I had all this extra space that I had no clue about...it didnt show in my finder. As you see I was absolutley new at this. I did not realize it was showing me what people would see on t.v. (this was for the net) so all this extra stuff was being seen.

anyway

peace

dalen
 
A false color exposure aid would be great as well. Sort of like how a thermal camera displays degress, but in f-stops instead. Would make it very easy to read the exposure values of the scene.
Something like this:
thermal2.jpg

thermal.jpg
 
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Jannard said:
LCD is removable from the side and can go anywhere on a cage you want.
Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,
Does the LCD do anything else besides showing you what you are filming (ie - Is it going to be a touchscreen or have any other controls)? My application wouldn't require the use of the lcd, and for weight/size savings, I would like to just leave it off and use the monitor-out.

Would the camera have a problem with the LCD being disconnected?
 
Jannard said:
LCD is removable from the side and can go anywhere on a cage you want. We have a VERY COOL focus assist aid that I can't talk about now. You can easily add an EVF if you want or large monitor. All the above solutions would be cheaper than a mechanical shutter and optical finder.
Click to expand...
Of course they are cheaper, but maybe (after having reached 10 000 sold units) you could consider more expensive model with optical viewfinder?
I bet the big boys with big productions and accustomed for $500 000 cameras would appreciate it, for lets say $25 000?
I haven't heard about even 2k field monitors coming to market let alone bigger, so...
 
This discussion about view finders is getting old. Give it a rest. Jim Jannard has explained why he didn't include it. I have to believe that he is aware of problems that arise concerning focus. Let's remember that this is a camera that he, as an enthusiast, is building first and foremost for himself, that he will give us an acceptable method to focus a shot. While many would love an optical focus, let's remember the medium that we're talking about. We are not talking about film, where we can never be certain what we're getting until it's developed. We're talking about digital. Immediate gratification. We see it, we shoot it, we know we've got it. $17,500 for the camera body!!!! If you can't see what a great deal this is, go buy a varicam or shoot on film.
 
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Blaine, this is an open forum and I don't see any value in attempting to limit anyone else's comments or opinions on any subject, no matter if they're positive, negative or somewhere in between. The extent to which viewfinders are a concern to prospective users is no doubt valuable input to RED. I believe that the viewing system for any camera is of huge importance. And it takes on even greater importance in the context of ultra high defintion sensor images where sharp focus is critical. From my reading (and reading between the lines) it appears that RED may offer a detachable eyepiece-style electronic viewfinder, possibiy using OLED technology which is capable of greater resolution and contrast and is generally superior to LCD while using much less power. That's speculation, but not much of stretch of the imagination.

And you're wrong if you think that you can always discern sharp focus for UHD images that are displayed on set at a lower res on an average monitor. Sometimes projected dailies are an unpleasant eye-opener.

Your take it or leave it attitude isn't productive, but of course you're free to express it.
 
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Focus is critical no doubt. To add an optical finder without a mechanical shutter loses a stop of light. To add a mechanical shutter adds a TON of cost and maintenance (well over $5k). Or you can hook up a very large high res monitor. Or we can provide a very slick, new focus assist gizmo that has never been seen before. I'd choose the latter.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Or we can provide a very slick, new focus assist gizmo that has never been seen before. I'd choose the latter.

Jim
Click to expand...

...as would I. Can't wait to hear what it's all about.
 
craigbowman said:
Hmmm... "Red Eagle" focusing!
Click to expand...
Naw... it'll have to be called the "Red Eye"

...hey! In fact -- you listening Jannard?! You heard it here first! Red Eye™ focusing! :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
Jannard said:
Or we can provide a very slick, new focus assist gizmo that has never been seen before. I'd choose the latter.

Jim
Click to expand...

sounds good to me...
...by the way, will there be crop marks to show what the actual full image is.
(as mentioned on my xl1 a few years back, i found out that it only showed in the viewfinder what you would see on tv, yet caught a lot more, which wasnt cool as the interviews were for the net.)


peace

dalen
 
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