RED at DV EXpo

Greg Voevodsky

Greg Voevodsky

Active member
You can see RED FOOTAGE at i-store in the back right of DV Expo. One of their disk vendors is showing RED footage (with no sign!!!) on a monitor in RAW... 4K raw in real time with a 12 terabyte disk array. I was in awe... no one else knew what they were looking at!!!!

I drove down from the Bay Area to LA for the RED SCREENING. It was awesome... 300+ people at 1:30pm and another group around the block with lots of parking tickets came at 2:30.

Now, at DV Expo, I was there to check out the new Sony Camera which I would buy if RED did not exist. I went and saw their screening of their new camera but the sharpness on the flowers and the latitude on their red hair model were not up to red's milk models! Her hair in the shadows went to black with no detail. Sony's slow motion at 120p uses a 1/4 of their sensor (like REd but not 4k to 720p) for the processing power of soccer footage. It was grainy as heck at standard def! I have not seen RED'S 720p at 120 yet, but I look forward to it.

Anyway, quick story, I talked to one of the engineer who head's Sony's tech from Germany and he was saying how RED was vaporwhere and had not seen anything... I expained a few details of 4k which he said was surprisingly impossible to do. He had not seen any footage and doubt that it was at all possible having been an engineer for many many years.

Funny, I explained I had just come down to see the screening and one hour later at the Expo, I found the red footage on the floor, I went to the Sony booth.

I found him, and showed him the 'impossible vaporwhere footage' on the floor. I said I can't wait to see him at NAB '07 when RED is out for all to see. He said he would now look at the footage on this website... LOL.. hope you read this Mr. Sony...
 
Greg, based on your experience, do you think that RED footage looks a bit soft? Does it look like its coming out of 4K?
 
Graeme,

Forgive me if this is just a joke (calling soft smooth), but are you saying this is the clarity we can expect from Red One or are there improvements to be expected? I know there is talk about cementing the sensor to make it perfectly perpidicular, etc.

I have great enthusiasm for this camera, and I don't want to come off like a detractor. I was about to invest some time in comparing line pair resolving in David Stump's color chart shots with some scanned 35mm of my own, but would rather hold off if I know it's not a fair test yet.
 
The sensor was in the best alignment (not perfect) when we shot the RED 300mm close up of the girl and milk bottle. see images at www.red.com. That will give you the best idea of our resolving capability for now. Our 1st real prototypes go together in December. Sensor alignment will be perfect then and we will shoot new resolution charts at that time.

Jim
 
IMO do your test/compare NOW ...
please tell RED what you see/like/dislike ... IMO any problems or suggestions from your test would be of value as they are still tuning the sensor ...
 
What I'm saying is that there's a big difference between resolution and "softness / sharpness", especially with regards to edge enhancement and aliassing. That, and as Jim says, alignment isn't 100% on the test rig.

Graeme
 
I didn't notice any softness when I went to see the screening at Nuart. As Graeme mentioned before, what I saw was a 'smoothness'. I guess a good comparison would be watching 720P and 1080P HDTV display, you'll automatically/immediately conclude that the 720P is 'sharper' than the 1080P, but there are lot less image details in the 720P, obviously. I guess when the pixels structure is larger (as in lower res' display), the edges of a pixel is more apparent, therefore making it look 'sharper'.
 
What I saw at the Nuart was incredible. Not being a cinematographer myself, I watched the footage and compared it to what I might expect to see if I went to see a movie in a theater. I WAS NOT disappointed. I couldn't get over how much it felt like I was watching a filmed sequence, particularly the girls out back...:thumbsup: ...and it will only get better. I am really looking forward to shooting something with this thing...:beer:
 
I have yet to see any of the projected footage, so I can't really comment on how this footage looks, but I will say that the look I'm hoping for is one that has exceptional resolution but doesn't look overly sharp/digital. I want to feel like I can't take my eyes off the screen because the images are that amazing, like what happens when I see a good print of a well shot 35mm film. Red footage doesn't have to look like film, but my hope is that it has the same effect. I'm really looking forward to seeing a projected demo at some point to see if that holds true. But until then, it's great hearing the feedback from those who have seen it.

Steve
 
We just figured out who was showing footage at DV Expo. It was unauthorized and they should NEVER have gotten our footage. What they showed on a loser 1080P monitor was scaled to 2k then 1080P and output via DVI connection. It is NOT representative of what our footage can look like. It kills me to think that someone's 1st exposure to RED footage would be on a system like this. The footage has now been taken down and I apologize to anyone who saw this. If you saw it and thought it look fantastic, all I can say is "you haven't seen nothin' yet!".

Jim
 
Y.Goh said:
Greg, based on your experience, do you think that RED footage looks a bit soft? Does it look like its coming out of 4K?
Click to expand...

I would NOT say red is soft but most of the shots have been using very shallow depth of field which then is obviously a bit soft as you get off the focus point.

One shot of the 2 milk girls had one popping her head in and out of frame, and the focus puller didnt quite keep up, so you saw the focus thrown between the 2 girls.

I would like to see outdoor footage - seascape and sunset, that would do the opposite and maximize the depth of fiend and see how sharp everything looks with a wide angle lense.
 
there was Red footag o on the show floor? How si this possible, they are controlling it so tightly! Can anyone verify? Or did some company just download off the web or something? Graeme, chip in?
 
Jannard said:
We just figured out who was showing footage at DV Expo. It was unauthorized and they should NEVER have gotten our footage. What they showed on a loser 1080P monitor was scaled to 2k then 1080P and output via DVI connection. It is NOT representative of what our footage can look like. It kills me to think that someone's 1st exposure to RED footage would be on a system like this. The footage has now been taken down and I apologize to anyone who saw this. If you saw it and thought it look fantastic, all I can say is "you haven't seen nothin' yet!".

Jim
Click to expand...
Wow, how did they get their hands on the footage?
 
Not like that... it was an error by someone we worked with. Innocent mistake. Not a good one, but innocent.

Jim
 
Don't worry 99% of people (unless they have been to this forum) walked right by it. I'm sorry, if I got someone in trouble. I can't wait for RED to show more of its footage.

I look forward to all the ignorant people to see that RED is impossible and quiet the ignorant critics. I don't like being called an ignorant believer in Vaporware... when there are now some serious Hollywood professionals validating what we took a chance on based upon the great people that Jim has brought together and his enthusiasm. But NAB is only 5 months away.
 
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