Red Antitheft Ownership database?

jamesms

jamesms

New member
Hi All

Here in the UK seem to have been almost overrun by a wave of very organized theft of camera and post equipment. From armed robberies, very organized thefts and fake hirers with forged identities. We recently lost 3 Sony Z1's to a conman. We tend to forget that this gear is (a) very valuable (b) easily transportable (c) easily resellable almost anywhere in the world.

I'm hoping if we can persuade Red now we can do something about the easily resellable part. If we can ask Red to maintain their database of registered owners of the Red cameras, and then we can report to them any serial numbers that may get stolen: then if they are offered anywhere, a prospective buyer can check with Red (for an admin fee perhaps?). We have system like that for vehicles here.

There are data protection laws here in the EU that mean it may be illegal to give out actual ownership info to someone else, but I for one would be happy to abrogate those rights and anyone in the world know that we own those serial numbers.

Also, if the serial number could be burned into the firmware somewhere? On checking with Sony about our Z1's, if someone peeled off the serial number label on the outside, there was no further way of identifying that camera.

Any thoughts?

Best

James M-S
 
And how about encoding/encrypting each cameras unique serial number to the metadata of its recorded footage to aid in tracking. You could even tie their copy of redcine to that serial so only the proper owner could process its footage.

It's not too early to think about security in this digital age.

Cheers,
Pete
 
I like the idea of hardcoding the serial number into the firmware and the footage shot so that no one outside of Red themselves can alter it and anyone can verify from the footage which camera it came from. I too am happy for a Red database with serial numbers, though of course it needs to have a way of being updated to cover second hand sales etc down the track.
 
It would be great if they would put a a tracking chip in very expensive equipment like this. That would be a good deterrent to theft.
 
hominid said:
And how about encoding/encrypting each cameras unique serial number to the metadata of its recorded footage to aid in tracking. You could even tie their copy of redcine to that serial so only the proper owner could process its footage.
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A few thoughts:

Why not have the option of a user defined password in the camera, password usage could be tied into a number of security options, like user lockout or the requirement of reregistration. Maybe password entry would only be required after a certain amount of time without power (so that it doesn't become too much of a chore).

Assuming you have the serial number of the camera embedded in the metadata how about having the option for a camera to require registration to a computer, the first time you use a file from that camera in RedCine. You can register as many cameras as you like to as many computers as you like, so there are no limitations on usage of software or cameras, but the registering process calls home to Red and compares the serial number against a list of stolen cameras. Again this could be an option to avoid it being seen as an onerous or intrusive task by whoever feels that way but I would certainly enable this if RedOne had that functionality.

Martin
 
Muttondraw said:
Maybe password entry would only be required after a certain amount of time without power (so that it doesn't become too much of a chore).
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That does not sound too user friendly, and could be a bit of a pain, especially if the cam operator doesn't know the password.
 
vidled said:
That does not sound too user friendly, and could be a bit of a pain, especially if the cam operator doesn't know the password.
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Yup. Thats why I suggested it should be optional, you can then chose what is right for you. It is important to get the right balance between the hassle and the security and that differs depending upon the situation. As an owner operator entering the password once a day would probably not be too bad, but it would be no good for a hire company. I have chosen to use a password for my SIM card in my mobile phone... it isn't as easy as not using a password but I have decided the gain is worth the pain.

Having your camera nicked is not too user friendly either.

Martin
 
Yeah, rental cameras for instance.

I like the idea of a public database of stolen cameras and the serial embeded in the metadata, but honestly, I can't see it stopping anyone from stealing, or even catching thieves.

I don't think I ever saw metadata of footage I didn't shoot.

Cheers!
 
taubkin said:
I like the idea of a public database of stolen cameras and the serial embeded in the metadata, but honestly, I can't see it stopping anyone from stealing, or even catching thieves.
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It may act as a deterrent though. This kind of organised theft is carried out by informed people who know what they are stealing. Anything which makes a camera slightly more hassle to sell on makes it slightly less appealing to a thief.

taubkin said:
I don't think I ever saw metadata of footage I didn't shoot.
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No, but it makes it more difficult for a thief to change or remove the serial number and makes it easier for a potential purchaser to check that they aren't buying stolen kit.

Martin
 
Of course the database needs to be on a secure (and password protected?) website. Otherwise if publically accessible it'll become a nice list of people and places for thieves to steal a Red from!
 
Dont Steal My Red

Dont Steal My Red

Red needs to make an optional LOW JACK or "red jack" chip that can be placed within the camera.. a simple tracking device that if the camera is indeed stolen.. we would call into red.. give them our red serial/name and they can pull it up and see where the camera is. this is especially good for rental companies. If they rent out a camera and the renters claim it was lost or stolen (renter scam or not) they would be able to retrieve the camera.


hey ill even work for red as a RED HUNTER (bounty hunter for stolen reds)




or lets go scifi and put a thumbprint reader on the side of the camera
 
slow down

slow down

zakaree said:
Red needs to make an optional LOW JACK or "red jack" chip that can be placed within the camera.. a simple tracking device that if the camera is indeed stolen.. we would call into red.. give them our red serial/name and they can pull it up and see where the camera is. this is especially good for rental companies. If they rent out a camera and the renters claim it was lost or stolen (renter scam or not) they would be able to retrieve the camera.
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i was just thinking that as a joke. not sure how serious you guys are but shouldn't we just let red finish the camera (specs pending) in time for delivery (date pending). i can come up with a ton of options that would benefit me and some others but the last thing they need is to be bogged down in user preferences. as far as stealing goes, i plan to treat red as i would any $20000 cam...carefully.
 
zakaree said:
Red needs to make an optional LOW JACK or "red jack" chip that can be placed within the camera.. a simple tracking device that if the camera is indeed stolen.. we would call into red.. give them our red serial/name and they can pull it up and see where the camera is. this is especially good for rental companies. If they rent out a camera and the renters claim it was lost or stolen (renter scam or not) they would be able to retrieve the camera.


hey ill even work for red as a RED HUNTER (bounty hunter for stolen reds)




or lets go scifi and put a thumbprint reader on the side of the camera
Click to expand...

And what happens if somebody were to want to sell their RED?..... Then they'd have to go through the pain of contacting RED, having RED transfer the Ownership of the camera (updating the DB), and then the person purchasing the used RED, could take possesion of it. It makes it a much longer process.... and forget about eBay-ing RED that way; that wouldn't work at all, with all that extra stuff that has to happen, before a used camera would be shipped.
 
I suggested long ago to the "red think tank" that they use a tracker device embedded inside the camera body. In uk many cars are now tracker proofed and can be located quickly by the police. Red have had plenty of time to think about many of these suggestions and more that have been submitted to the red think tank.

Michael
 
A51Films said:
And what happens if somebody were to want to sell their RED?..... Then they'd have to go through the pain of contacting RED, having RED transfer the Ownership of the camera (updating the DB), and then the person purchasing the used RED, could take possesion of it. It makes it a much longer process.... and forget about eBay-ing RED that way; that wouldn't work at all, with all that extra stuff that has to happen, before a used camera would be shipped.
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Given the value of the camera, I'm sure some people wouldn't think this too much of a hassle. We've got used to doing that with Avid systems and lots of other software licensed systems (OK there has always been a fuss over how much Avid charge for this, it was free at one point). You can sell them on ebay, but if you want the opportunity to upgrade in the future you have to transfer the license. We do this with cars in the UK and the government keeps track. And you can phone various private companies who for about $60 will do a search when you buy a used car to check if it's been stolen, written off, or has any leasing issues outstanding.

On a smaller scale, you could just ask them to keep track if it had been reported stolen. You email Red "I've been offered this camera at half the regular price on Ebay: is it legit?" "No it has been reported as stolen, if you can tell us where you've seen it we'll email the rightful owner" or "We have no report of theft: that will be $30."

I agree sat-tracking is too much to ask, but embedding the serial in the firmware couldn't slow the guys down too much surely? Administering the database is after the manufacturing fact. And I'd happily keep an online database for people to volunteer info to, but the manufacturer is the best and most obvious point of contact.

When our Z1s were taken I started monitoring Ebay and over the weeks saw a few Z1's for sale thru Ebay shops (I mean, who sells this value item through someone who will take 30%?). If it they weren't ours, they may well have been someone else's. When I emailed asking for the serial numbers, these items were often suddenly withdrawn. So I started rather going to physically inspect the cameras (we had lost nearly $30K of kit, I was on a mission). I didn't find ours but of the ones I could view that seemed tp have a dodgy provenance, not Sony, not the police, no-one could tell me, as a potential customer if that serial number had been reported as stolen.

James M-S
 
I'd rather deal with the hassle of an owner's list than the hassle of a stolen camera... not that the list is perfect, but it would help.
 
Actually, people sell Native Instruments products like Kore on eBay all the time. They require a transfer of ownership. I think a very expensive buy like RED, it would probably make people happier to know someone was keeping track of who owned the camera.
 
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