Record Straight to Hard Drive

C

ChrisSThomas

New member
I have been all around the HMC forums and I may just not be seeing it but I haven't seen anyone talk about recording straight to a hard drive. I know that some people have rigged the HVX to do so and I am wondering if it is possible on the HMC too? It doesn't seem like it would be impossible theoretically as you could definitely create an sd to USB 2.0 or Firewire cable. The trick would be whether you could get the HMC to recognize the HD and write to it. It would be nice to have the expanded capacity and not have to worry about SD cards and switching them in the middle of a shoot. If anyone has resources on this topic I sure would appreciate it.
 
An SDHC to USB or Firewire cable, even if you made one (and I don't know that you can), would be useless, because as far as I know, you can't record with the card door open, and such a cable would necessitate that.

Also, the idea seems like a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. A hard drive would add bulk to the camera, or require some other elaborate set in order to carry it with you, plus it needs some sort of power source. I get almost 100 minutes with the 16gig Transcend cards in PH mode. I've never had to worry about swapping cards in the middle of a shoot at some critical time. It's an issue with the HVX because P2 is expensive and doesn't carry as much comparatively as an SDHC card. But it seems to me that the setup you're describing is much more of a hassle than swapping SDHC cards.
 
Mike Harvey said:
An SDHC to USB or Firewire cable, even if you made one (and I don't know that you can), would be useless, because as far as I know, you can't record with the card door open, and such a cable would necessitate that.

Also, the idea seems like a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. A hard drive would add bulk to the camera, or require some other elaborate set in order to carry it with you, plus it needs some sort of power source. I get almost 100 minutes with the 16gig Transcend cards in PH mode. I've never had to worry about swapping cards in the middle of a shoot at some critical time. It's an issue with the HVX because P2 is expensive and doesn't carry as much comparatively as an SDHC card. But it seems to me that the setup you're describing is much more of a hassle than swapping SDHC cards.
Click to expand...

Trust me, you would re-write what you just wrote when your 16GB card doesn't work all of the sudden and your HMC says check card out of the blue despite doing everything right.
 
@desertfox: have you ever recorded to harddrive? ever had a harddrive fail? the statistics still say recording to solid state is more reliable than harddrives and tape.
 
[edit] averan posted at the same time I was writing this [/edit]

Same could be said about a hard drive crapping out. Except a hard drive is bulkier, and if you drop it, you can't just pick it up and expect it to work again.

Besides, I think the OP was addressing what he considered the hassles of switching cards in general, not just the "Check Card" issue. I've had more hard drives fail than cards fail in the last year. Some sort of way to record redundantly would be nice on this camera to be sure, but that isn't what the OP was addressing, and the theoretical method described above almost seems less reliable that using the camera as designed.
 
averan said:
@desertfox: have you ever recorded to harddrive? ever had a harddrive fail? the statistics still say recording to solid state is more reliable than harddrives and tape.
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Statistics may differ & depends on which magazine in the world is printing it and also what type of users are voting it. No offense and No I have not tried shooting with a HDD and so I assume you have done so with the HMC. The question here is whether it is possible to do it with the HMC 15X. It would be great to be able to have that option with the HMC 15X in my humble opinion. Now that I own a pocket sized 1TBGB USB powered, palm sized hard drive this can be a considerable option. For now my workflow in the field is as follows:

Store .mts files straight from the SD card to a notebook and back it up to an external HDD. I believe the owner to this thread thinks that workflow would be much easier if one can go straight from cam to the external HDD. Data integrity also depends on luck... one can get a file corruption on any data saving medium even before the finger reaches the camera door; At least if it's possible, there is a second option of recording to a HDD instead of worrying if the SD card might crap out on you. It would be a great idea if it was possible just that this may not be a good marketing strategy for SD card manufacturers or Panasonic especially when their marketing strategy begins with SD card price will depreciate over time and your HMC camera price will appreciate. In any case, I'm writing with an open mind for any optimization possibilities for the little work horse.

Besides, based on my recent unfortunate SD card incident. I am almost sold to the idea that HDD may be another reliable option considering that the possibilities for a HDD corrupted file recovery services is more reliable. Such data recovery services has been around longer than services for a small non moving parts SD card. (I think)
 
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no, i haven't with the hmc150, but am familiar with the setup on an hvx200 (think bulky, heavy and awkward!).

i hear your concerns though and i've thought that it would at least be a good idea to have an easy way to copy the memory cards in the field with something like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/592208-REG/Nexto_DI_NESE_ND270160G_Nexto_eXtreme_160GB_.html

if you could swap out the hdd with a larger one of your own that would be a pretty sweet solution.

even so, recording straight to harddrive is not as reliable and requires more gear (batteries, cables, holders, etc) than i want to lug around attached to my camera.

i know this probably sounds annoying, but i think the solution is just to be sure to purchase a good/reliable memory card and not the cheap and flawed models.

if you think it's easy to get a bad sd card, you should read about all the people complaining about bad/dead harddrives!

but if you compare a good memory card to a good harddrive, the card will last you longer, run cheaper, weigh less, use less energy and generally just be a much more efficient recording medium.

heck, even Focus Enhancements (the makers of portable hdd recorders popular with hvx200 users) have mostly switched over to solid state. you can still get the FS-5 though, but it only takes a firewire input. and no, it isn't possible to adapt an hdmi connection to firewire. so your only option is to try to record one of the 480p signals coming out of the composite or component connections and trying to adapt that to firewire (if that's even possible).

btw, what is your procedure for changing cards out of the hmc? do you leave your camera on while removing the card? i've heard some people doing this, but i've always powered down when changing cards....just curious whether maybe this makes a difference and might result in fewer issues.
 
I haven't tried ordering from www.bhphotovideo.com yet but seems like a promising product. Thanks for the tip averan.

I would normally change cards with the power ON because it takes about 3 seconds for it to turn OFF and another 5 seconds for it to be in operation again. (Duration is longer now that I am shooting in winter land.) By the time I swap cards and wait for the indicators to stop blinking, I may already loose some recording material. I think it's OK to swap cards when the power is ON. Just that I would have to keep a cool head before swapping cards (difficult when you are shooting and you worry if the card will end in the middle of a performance) Staying cool for me means a cool head, slow down when I am about to press the stop button, open the sensitive magic card door. All these takes discipline, patience and a habit. I think I will go your way and power down in the near future. Especially for paid gigs. :Drogar-Smoke(DBG)::Drogar-Smoke(DBG):

In any case, I have a phobia when it comes to recording with a medium larger than 8GB.
 
one advantage to shooting with 16gb cards is that i can more easily choose a slow moment to change cards.

what i mean is that i'll shoot as much as i can on one card, but might stop at 12 or 14gb if i know that i might not get another slow moment to change cards or if i'm expecting to have to shoot continuously for another 100 minutes or so. with that much storage space i'm not forced to shoot until the card is full which might put me in a very difficult situation where i can't afford the extra few seconds it takes to power down and change cards.

i've never once changed cards with the power on and so have gotten used to the time it takes. it has never been a problem for me though; i've always been able to find 10-15 seconds when it's convenient to swap cards.

i think i got freaked out the first time i opened the card door with the power on and the camera started flashing warnings at me and i just never did it again.

it's the same when i plug the card into my computer.....i make sure to eject or stop the device before removing it to be sure that i don't create any errors or lose any info.
 
What would be an ideal setup for cameras using SDHC media would be to have two SD slots on the camera, and then a way to set up either a RAID 1 between the two cards for redundancy, or span your recording time across the two cards.

This would give people the option of increased recording time, without needing to change out a card, or improved reliability by mirroring the data being recording to one card onto the other. Think about that one for a second!
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
What would be an ideal setup for cameras using SDHC media would be to have two SD slots on the camera, and then a way to set up either a RAID 1 between the two cards for redundancy, or span your recording time across the two cards.

This would give people the option of increased recording time, without needing to change out a card, or improved reliability by mirroring the data being recording to one card onto the other. Think about that one for a second!
Click to expand...

I would hazard a guess and say Panasonic probably considered this, but decided against it as they didn't want to take away another advantage of the P2 cameras.
 
We routinely shoot to hard drive, either via a laptop or into a portable switcher. We use portable drives - we buy the enclosures and good quality drives separately - assemble as needed. The primary medium is still tape - yeah, I know all about the advantages of tapeless - but shooting to external portable drives had a bigger impact on workflow than going tapeless, especially when you consider the cost of upgrading to solid state cameras.

Our setup requires planning, ongoing management / maintenance, and a data wrangler who knows how it all works. But we walk out of shoots with tapes, disc copies, hard drive copies and backups. Half the time, editing's already underway while the cameras are still rolling.

Cheers,
George
 
I record to HDD often, mostly for long-form work.

I record to HDD often, mostly for long-form work.

I've been recording from an HVX to an old nNovia QC HD deck for about 2 years. The one I have only records SD, is limited by size to 2 hrs 49 mins with a 40 GB non-replaceable HDD, but it's served me well. One item on my wish list is a new Datavideo DN-50 so I can finally record in better-than-SD from my HVX. Seems to me the DN-50 would be better - and ultimately less expensive - than P2 cards with an equal amount of storage. Tried a CitiDisk a while back, but it just didn't meet my expectations (though I was real new at the time and maybe too impatient). Thre'a also the Firestor, but I've never used one.

As for the HMC-150, I'm considering getting a Sony VRD-MC10 DVDirect and sending component-out from the 150 to component-in on the DVDirect, primarily for redundancy/backup of legal work.

x
 
Hello,
I am a computer technician at a fairly busy computer shop. Let me tell you that 1 out of every 4 computers that come in has a failed hard drive. The drives are okay for the most part when you are dealing with stability. But you would never pick up your external hard drive and shake it around right? Same thing with one mounted to a camera. This post did catch my eye and i see why you would want this but i think you would see yourself in a bad situation with a moving part hard drive. (Solid state is another story... And they arent in large enough sizes.) As for the pocket drive powered by USB sounds like a good idea but keep in mine that the HMC150 does not put OUT power from the camera USB it only transfers data. It is not like a computer. Good luck and please private message me if you ever get this working as i am curious to see if it could be done!
 
It cant be done, HDMI has to be captured and stored. USB is only for stored data transfer.

I know those little SDHC/CF media dump hard drives can get your info off through the USB - but thats whatever is on the card.
 
NEXTO is the best for Field Transers

NEXTO is the best for Field Transers

I use the NEXTO DI ND2700 with 320 gig drive. It has a rechargeable battery and transfers 1 gig of data in 40 seconds.
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
What would be an ideal setup for cameras using SDHC media would be to have two SD slots on the camera, and then a way to set up either a RAID 1 between the two cards for redundancy, or span your recording time across the two cards.

This would give people the option of increased recording time, without needing to change out a card, or improved reliability by mirroring the data being recording to one card onto the other. Think about that one for a second!
Click to expand...

Kinda like the Sony NX5 and it's SD&128GB flash drive combo.
 
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