Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

..honestly, if i could feel my head anymore im sure it would. as it is, im not sure i have a head. i try not to post too much about it because ive become jaded and bitter... like Gargamel from the smurfs. ..only im pretty sure he has a head. ..freaky looking guy. ..he wants to borrow my socks.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#76 date=02/21/05 at 09:35:27]nothing towards you personally video guy, but this is somthing i read commonly , and i just dont get it..theres a growing number of people who are baffled at the fact that many people embracing the new sonys cannot understand that people not embracing them DO NOT have a problem with HD vs SD. they simply have a problem with  HDV vs standard HD compression.  why is that so hard for everyone to understand. seriously.. WE ALL WANT HD.. we just want real tried and tested and reliable real video/audio standard HD compression and workflow to go along with it. [/quote]
It's all good Neil, and also nothing personal, I understand your position.  I sort of get point that point of view... it's the "well HD isn't here yet" and "there is No HD delieverable format that gets me most trying to push people clearly to the DVX when HD is here now with the sony's.  People saying shooting SD if your output is SD!?  Seems silly to me ...

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#76 date=02/21/05 at 09:35:27]
i definitely really agree with scharky on alot of his points hes made in this thread, but theres also a point of if your going to buy new equipment you want to make sure it will work well for what you want to use it for. nobody wants a paintbrush that leaves brush hairs in your masterpeice or snaps in half when you least expect it. HDV doesnt add up for me.  i just like what i beleived panasonic would bring out more. [/quote]
K fine, so it's not SD vs HD... it's HDV vs DVCPRO... or whatever panasonic does... well I hope your faith doesn't dissapoint cause right now everything from panasonic is all specualtion.  Guys like Ejody are puttin' the Z1 through it's paces for REAL SHOOTS in REAL PRODUCTIONS, givin' us the lowdown and some are acting like he doesn't get it... not sure about this... HDV doesn't add up for you?  How often have your worked with it?  Oh ya... it's the number side of it that doesn't add up... well then you aren't really takin' sharkys advice cause when Panasonic does release something there is going to be a "prove yourself" period as if it's a modified version of DVCPro... but I don't care cause at the end of the day their both HD... now we got to start which HD is better... who cares if it works!  I'll take Ejody's advice here... experience is always better than opinion... (which again we are all guilty of having to much of)

What bothers me most is that someone like Ejody with his experience comes on here to shed some light on the Z1U to encourage people and provide answers to those making a decision, and people are indirectly tellin' him he doesn't get it..  I doubt if he will post often or again for that matter... why would he.  He knows he gets it... and obviously it seems like cause this is a DVX forum, even though this is in the sony thread, there is an aweful lot of "I'd buy the DVX.. but that's me.." ... or "Panasonic HD will be better" even if people are enquiring about the sony today.  I don't spam in the DVX thread but it seems as though opinions to push the DVX or Panasonic HD gear run rampid in the sony thread... again just noticing this.  Why have a Sony thread?... to bash it or to get info from guys using the sony in real world settings?  I've owned a Sony PD, a Panny, a GL2, and now and FX1... they are all good cams that have served me well.  My next cam...?!  The GL3... why?... cause it will be out before the Panasonic, It will be HD, I need a second HD cam, it will be HD and will be 720P and have 24P!  (speculation of course)  ;D  Hurry up Panasonic... so all this bs can end.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=60#73 date=02/20/05 at 13:55:09]- I could mistaken on Z1 vs FX1E so can you to tell me if Z1 is way better than FX1E and why?
[/quote]
Z1U is just a feature rich camera... FX1E and FX1 together on roids... it's does both 50i and 60i and it's associated CF "film like" options. It's main strenght besides that are the XLR. There is a detailed breakdown of spec for spec difference here.
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/article.php?filename=Comparison-Table-1-:-HDR-FX1,-HDR-FX1E,-and-HVR-Z1

[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=60#73 date=02/20/05 at 13:55:09]- If there is a downconvert on FX1E, is it better to use the downconvert on the camera or do it in post.[/quote]
The question here might be do you have the tools to edit HDV. Right now the best part is that it does DV right out of the cam so in theory it makes sense to downcovert on the fly and caputre in DV. If your output is DVD then your fine, if you need to get an HD master then is a bit tricky at the moment cause batching HDV has been a bit slow to come to the NLE's. Once it does, assuming you can batch your final timeline in HD, it would be a quick solution then you can put it back to tape. (depends on the NLE at the moment)

[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=60#73 date=02/20/05 at 13:55:09]- CF25, is it the same as the frame mode on XL1s or is it better looking? and in your eyes does it the trick of "film-like"?[/quote]
Again opinions fly off the wall on this but if you put your magnifying glass and your calculator away... for the most part yes. If you think the XL1s looks film like, the you would be fine with the Sony.

[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=60#73 date=02/20/05 at 13:55:09]- Talking CF25, do you think it's better to use a product like DVfilm maker to deinterlace rather than using CF25? Just a bit worried of a software trying to deinterlace mpeg. being a software developer myself, I know how compression works, and it seems to me that the sony will have better infos to deinterlace with CF25 than a software after compression.[/quote]
Again an opnion here, depends on your budget and the gear you have available... (of couse)... but if it's 50i, you have a bit more options, vs CF25... you are done and that is the look you got. If you like CF25 then why not shoot with it. I would rather do 50i and then have the option of having it done "film like" with conversion deinterlace if I want.
[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=60#73 date=02/20/05 at 13:55:09]-If you were on a tight budget, but with time in front of you, would you wait for panasonic or canon answer to sony's HDV or do you have full faith in what sony did? therefore no need to wait... [/quote]
I am really happy with my Sony and the results of it's image. HD requires gear to see in it's glory so if you are on a serious tight budget with time to spare, no harm in waiting... prices always drop and newer gear always comes out. Having said that... whatever you decide make sure you give yourself a few weeks/months to learn to use it right. When I transitioned from the GL to the Panny to the Sony, they are have little quirks... know what you are working with so don't order the day before you need it... get it at least a month or so so you can hammer out the quirks of each cam.. they all got some.

Again... my opinion only... decisions are the hard part which is your opinion only which intern opens up YOUR wallet.
For the extra price of the Z1, it would make sense to me to get it over the FX1E. The street price for the FX1 is quite a bit lower which is why I went that route but if the gap was between 800 - 1g... I would have gone the Z1U... I still might after to have 2 HD cams... sorry HDV cams ;D
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

thank you The_Video_Guy. that is all I needed.

Finally someone who don't seems to be on panasonic payroll...

Just joking guys, but that's true that it was a great idea to open this forum to other cameras.Now, the question is, was it opened to destroy their credibility or to be informative about them?

I feel sorry for those who put this forum in place.

Is it just me or this forum sound like a battle field. I'm just a normal guy, that just want information about what's available on the market to realise my own dream. I want facts, not therory nor speculations. today is today, tomorrow is tomorrow

So can we please cut the crap and be a bit more mature, and let people make their own mind up otherwise it's not the cameras that are going to loose credibility but this forum.

just show what your camera can do, post images, video etc.. and let people choose for themselves. it's not that hard to do.

most of you sound like you are going to get a bonus from panasonic if you convert someone....

what is really annoying is that we had the chance to have someone with a great experience (ejody) and probably a lot to learn from him not only about are toys, and in one conversation we managed to piss him off..... oh well not even worth talking about it...but Jody, if you are on another forum let me know cos I'm happy to listen to what you have to say.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

So it seems that everybody here must be shooting for broadcast, because of the so called future proofing your masters to HD. What about the corporate shooters, the training tape shooters, the industrial shooter. Those clients needs for HD is 0. Heres a survey on HDTV in the United States http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/press/112204release.html
Just because HD is coming doesent mean the masses will be buying HD tv's let alone how to use them correctly to recieve HD programming. Saying standard def is dead is like saying every household in the United States who owns a camcorder are going to have obsolete camcorders. Whats going to happen to Beta SP? Is that obsolete to? All dvd players arent true high def, what happens to them? The amount of time it took for consumers to replace and embrace DVD over vhs wasn't overnight and the same will go for HD, not because of quality, but because of cost.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

K Paul Pelalas you must not have read my thread above as you are resorting to the HD is not here arguement.  No one is saying SD "is dead" but at a price point similar to SD in one sense it does make aquiring footage in SD a definate disadvantage... ie "obselete".  WHO CARES ABOUT THE OUTPUT MEDIUM  ;D!!  It's bound to evolve into something different every year... why not try to have highest res possible?  Look at how many quicktime and windows media versions there have been in the last few year?!!? Do you think they are going to stop evolving them cause you liked Quicktime 6 better?!  Do I convert my QT 5 stuff to a better codec now that QT7 is out?  YES OF COURSE I DO!... cause it looks better.  If you have SD... it will never be HD.  Period.  Techspecs which is better aside... HDV is HD.  DVCPRO HD is HD. SD is SD. I don't usually throw out my master DV just cause I have my program on DVD.

And another point I have to throw out there just once... and this kind of goes against what I think in a sense...

For most... money makes the world go round.  People are droppin' the cost of my house on a cameras from sony like the F900...  ya Sony makes a lot of mistakes and pisses the little guy off.  Guess what...!?  The little guy has no money!!  So really who cares about the little guy... this actually motivated me to start being the little guy to become the big guy... but I don't pretend that I'm a big guy... to the big guys.  Panasonic can cater to the "indie" all day long but lets face it, most of us/them are broke in comparison to what major networks are spending on cams.  We are gryping about a few grand and everytime someone buys an F900 it's like 50 DVX or Z1U's or whatever.  Panasonic is definately playing the little guy role and in a sense it's such a good thing cause it makes Sony pay attention... it doesn't mean you need snuff the big guys all the time... sometimes you need to join them or at least play on their level with their gear... and right now if you need a cam to get HD and Panasonic doesn't have one, stay loyal if you are not going to regret having your material in a non HD source... cause if we go by all this until it's proven reliable stuff... you should all wait for the HDXA... cause the first one will be a test unit like the DVX100...  ???   ... wow... sorry for this... my head hurts.

[quote author=Dremmwel link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#83 date=02/21/05 at 15:28:15]Jody, if you are on another forum let me know cos I'm happy to listen to what you have to say.
[/quote]
I agree to that 100 percent.  Hopefully Jody creates a forum where he can impart his wisdom and experience on those who want to listen so we can learn from experience...  those who don't want to listen... won't.  Not saying we need to worship his every word but half of the people here want to remain annoymous.  For those bashing or pushing people to one side or the other with opinions only, please tape yourself on tape, say your name and which shows you currently produce, why you chose the DVX or Sony, or whatever and what you did so we can all see who you are and what you have done.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

I did read this whole thread, twice. HD is coming, SD is not dying can we agree on that. Us so called " little people" may not be making millions or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in this profession, but then who is?
Its the 1 millions little guys who bust our asses to make a living in video and film production that buys the most equipment. Its the men and women who shoot corporate industrials, weddings, cable commercials, events, Fortune 500 meetings, training DVD's etc. Yes we shoot broadcast to, but our budgets are a fraction of the money the so called big guys have and we buy as much if not more equiptment than they do.
If I need HD ill rent a camera, but for now me and hundreds of thousands of little people will continue to shoot in SD because we invested in it, and still see a viable market where HD isnt an option. You can see me as a little guy, but my bank acct is filled with $$$ from my clients who don't want or need SD. I was one of the first shooters to use HD cameras when the United Nations did the first HD broadcacat of a UN session back in the 90's .
Maybe we can't all have the prestige and money and fame the big guys have, but it's us little guys who dictate the market. The new Sony camera is a toy, to me not truely capable to deliver what HD can offer. If im going that route i'll wait like I did with every other investment I have ever made, not for HDTV to be here, but maybe for better offerings from camera manufactures.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#85 date=02/21/05 at 16:57:15]why not try to have highest res possible?[/quote]
Because that higher res does not come without tradeoffs.  As the argument has been made many times before: if you have higher-res, but lose two stops of exposure sensitivity, a stop and a half of latitude, 24p and 30p, high-quality audio and XLR connectors, SMPTE timecode, true manual lens control and true manual focus, and everything else you have to give up... then have you really gained?

Especially when the only way someone can view your work involves you having to LOSE all that extra resolution?

If there was a free lunch, your argument would make perfect sense.

But at least as referencing the FX1, there is no free lunch there.  There are clear and substantial tradeoffs, and those tradeoffs go both ways.

Panasonic is definately playing the little guy role
Click to expand...
You totally lost me on that rant.  Panasonic is building a single comprehensive lineup, from the $6,000-ish "HDX" to the $45,000 HDX-400 or whatever it is up to the $65,000 VariCam, all using the same format top-to-bottom.  Sony is throwing format after format at broadcasters and networks.  It's like they're spraying formats at us, hoping to see what "sticks". People who bought BetaSX are MAD, and there's a lot of confusion going around as to just WHAT they should buy... DVCAM?  XDCAM?  BetaCam?  Digital BetaCam?  MPEG-IMX?  HDCAM?  HDCAM-SR?  Meanwhile, Panasonic is developing a full fleet of consistent, interchangeable-format cameras to serve all needs: a cheap palmcorder, a small production camera, a full-fledged 1080i camera, and a digital cinema 720p camera.  Plus the same decks that have been around for four years.  All compatible.  All comprehensive.  All working together.  All proven.

Now, seriously -- if you were a network or a major broadcaster, which product line would you be more tempted by?  One that you don't even know if it'll be around a couple of years from now?  Or one that has products to fill every possible desire?

I think Panasonic is playing hard for the big guy, and I think they're going to start making major inroads.  ESPECIALLY when people get a taste of Sony's new CineFrame 24 DVCAM...
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#87 date=02/21/05 at 23:31:51]
People who bought BetaSX are MAD, and there's a lot of confusion going around as to just WHAT they should buy... DVCAM?  XDCAM?  BetaCam?  Digital BetaCam?  MPEG-IMX?  HDCAM?  HDCAM-SR?  Meanwhile, Panasonic is developing a full fleet of consistent, interchangeable-format cameras to serve all needs: a cheap palmcorder, a small production camera, a full-fledged 1080i camera, and a digital cinema 720p camera.  Plus the same decks that have been around for four years.  All compatible.  All comprehensive.  All working together.  All proven.
[/quote]
Ya you kind of summed up my rant and made it make sense to me... :) Thanks. I was saying that Sony in broadcast is bigger but because of this Panasonic is making some great products to couter sony's money hungry ways of making whatever they can sell. When I said play the little guy role I just meant that they are coming up with great ideas but like everyone trying something opposite the big guys, sometimes it takes a little longer. I think they are doing a good job overall. I was in the market for a cam now and I wanted it HD and I wanted it now. So I bought the sony. Would I have bought the Panasonic over the Sony if it came out the same time... probably... cause Panasonic usually listens to the little guys and the things I dislike about the sony I'm sure panasonic will address with their new cam. (I hope)

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#87 date=02/21/05 at 23:31:51]
Now, seriously -- if you were a network or a major broadcaster, which product line would you be more tempted by? One that you don't even know if it'll be around a couple of years from now? Or one that has products to fill every possible desire?[/quote]
I don't know.. it depends what current gear I have that the sony rep sold me on in the past. ;D hahaha... naw I hear what you are sayin' and agree 100 percent.
I am glad they did make HDV on a miniDV tape however. Too much compression, motion artifacts whatever aside... I THINK Sony made a good decision there not to change the tape format... for once... and internal downconvert to DV for the time being?... CLEARLY they have done worse! ;D
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

no...no..    let me try and explain where we are actually coming from here.   ;)


[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#81 date=02/21/05 at 13:28:14]
It's all good Neil, and also nothing personal, I understand your position.  I sort of get point that point of view... it's the "well HD isn't here yet" and "there is No HD delieverable format that gets me most trying to push people clearly to the DVX when HD is here now with the sony's.  People saying shooting SD if your output is SD!?  Seems silly to me ... [/quote]

..no, thats not my point of view at all. id rather have a HD camera any day whether i can eventually deliver it on HD or not. ..who wouldnt?  espescially if it can simpy still shoot SD with the push of a button. if i was buying a camera right now and could afford a near 10,000 price tag id be seriously considering waiting for the HDX unless i really needed a camera today. im not gettig the sony HDV because HDV makes too many copromises just to achieve an HD pixel count at a low data rate.

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#81 date=02/21/05 at 13:28:14]
K fine, so it's not SD vs HD... it's HDV vs DVCPRO... or whatever panasonic does... well I hope your faith doesn't dissapoint cause right now everything from panasonic is all specualtion.  [/quote]

its not speculation .. its confirmed information from the panasonic USA product manager. as much as has been confirmed is all i need to know. all those numbers and stuff do actually mean something. they tell me alot about the camera  because they are already industry standard formats. which means someone can look at the specs for the formats and know what to expect. even if the 24p DVCPRO-HD is stored at a lower data rate in a 24p data stream, it makes no difference in the workflow besides making it easier, and i know i can expect a certain quality within each frame given the format its encoded in. its nothing new or unprooven.  24p used to have to just be encoded into a 60I data stream  cause it was on tape.. then we would just pull it back out again.. this would simply be saving us that headache by giving us the straight 24p to start with if thats what they do.. otherwsie it will be the same as always.

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#81 date=02/21/05 at 13:28:14] HDV doesn't add up for you?  How often have your worked with it?  Oh ya... it's the number side of it that doesn't add up... well then you aren't really takin' sharkys advice cause when Panasonic does release something there is going to be a "prove yourself" period as if it's a modified version of DVCPro... but I don't care cause at the end of the day their both HD... now we got to start which HD is better... who cares if it works!  I'll take Ejody's advice here... experience is always better than opinion... (which again we are all guilty of having to much of)[/quote]

..your right here. the number side doesnt add up. ive never used the camera. but ive seen footage... and  the numbers mean something. they mean things that actaully affect the "what you see/hear" side.

..the reason that i care about which HD to use if they both "work" is that HDV's video and audio "working" at its BEST, is still only a substitute for a higher data rate standard HD signal. its a highly compressed format that suffers from substandard audio, and comprmised video... even if its working flawlessly.  it does have a high HD pixel count. but it also has reduced color space information- compression artifacts related to motion or scene complexity issues- potential for 1/2 second dropouts- unprooven workflow includig mpg2 codec to try and do proffessional level HD post work on? .. i think if you asked Ejody which was a better format.. HDV or DVCPRO-HD. hed be quick to say that DVCPRO-HD was an obvious choice. just because he likes the sony doesn mean he wouldnt quickly trade it for a DVCPRO-HD cam. i dont know anyone that wouldnt. again i dont have a problem with HD at all. i have an issue with HDV.  if there was an SD  mpg2 camera just like the DVX and then there was the DVX id take the DVX every time. it has nothing to do with HD. its with the quality of th audio and video encoding being used. i love everything else about the sony.


[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#81 date=02/21/05 at 13:28:14]What bothers me most is that someone like Ejody with his experience comes on here to shed some light on the Z1U to encourage people and provide answers to those making a decision, and people are indirectly tellin' him he doesn't get it..  I doubt if he will post often or again for that matter... why would he.  He knows he gets it... and obviously it seems like cause this is a DVX forum, even though this is in the sony thread, there is an aweful lot of "I'd buy the DVX.. but that's me.." ... or "Panasonic HD will be better" even if people are enquiring about the sony today.  I don't spam in the DVX thread but it seems as though opinions to push the DVX or Panasonic HD gear run rampid in the sony thread... again just noticing this.  Why have a Sony thread?... to bash it or to get info from guys using the sony in real world settings?[/quote]

i respect  what ejody does.. i respect his opinion of the camera.. and if thats really him i hope he does stick around,, hes got alot to offer im sure. i respect that people like the sony. i really dont care if people think its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
this thread was started because we thought the sony could be our new holy grail camera.. yes , we thought that a SONY.. sould be our next camera to buy. . turns out it wasnt for reasons ive already explained numerous times. the only reason people like me even bother to post here anymore is to try and clear up alot of the misinformation going on, or  bring some understanding to the reasons we arent all up on this camera when were being somewhat bashed for it. time and time again we just try and explain our actuall point of view, and time and time again its completely missed. .. im honestly not sure why that is. its not about always waiting for the next camera. its about knowing that youll have your camera for some tie to come, and if your going to drop a load of cash on a new camera it better be a solid and prooven format with reliable and proffesional results. HDV is just not that. anyone can say it is, but again id tell them to ask ejody ..the real one of course.. or anyone else in the world which he would rather get as a camera for the next few years. HDV or DVCPRO-HD with DVCPRO 50 as well as P2.  p2 by the way is also already a prooven and very, very nice worklfow for capture.  ..sure the pani isnt here now, but again we all have DVX's  and arent loosing any money cause its not HD right now. so the only question for us is as simple as "which one do you want".  the small amount of time inbetween is not an issue at all.

..anyway as ive said a gajillion times. i have nothig against the sony.. but its just not the right choice for me.  i dont ever have to drive a race car if it has a big sticker on the windshield at the dealership that says"top speed of 50 mph".  and i dont have to ever use a camera that  has encoding  with known major limitations to know i dont want it either. but not everyone needs a camera that is able to go beyond  those limitations.. which is cool. some people just dont need to get anything more from an HD camera, and some i think simply dont even realize that there are limitations to begin with. ...they just think "HD is HD" and dont realize that the framework that makes up the pixels could determine how well you imagery holds up. .. as for me i want solid framewok.. i view HDV as a sort of "house of cards".. yes its a house.. an HD house, but it has weak structure and could potentially fall apart at any time.  maybe it wont, but id persnally rather eliminate the "maybe" part.  and like i said, even if it doesnt.. and all goes well.  i have a highly compressed mpg2 video and substandard audio.. so when it comes time for editing and compositing and FX and yada yada.. in post. id rather have something more solid than mpg2. and audio i can be proud of straight off the camera. thats just me though. if those specs are good enough for others i have no issue with that.

call me crazy.. say i hate HD or sony or whatever.. serioulsy though. im not making this stuff up. i dont want to talk anyone out of buying the sony. i think that if people think its the right camera for them.. it probably is. i think that if they need HD now they should get it. and i think that its a nice camera with alot of great features. its resolution blows the dvx away and ive seen some good things from it.  i just think that people who want it or have it,  and are not enlightned as to why people like me and barry green and david jimmerson and well.. sort of all of us wacky dvxers as a whole arent biting..  should just happily swim along and enjoy their great new cam. instead of trying to convince the world that were idiots for not following around the latest shiney thing to drop into the pond. ..even if it says HD on the side.

.. not sure if any of this makes sense, but thats whats going on in my head. anyway..   im sure the camera can do some good stuffs.  i understand why people like it, just trying to explain why some of us who like it just dont like it enough to make it our next camera. im glad its here though. its really helped the industry along. its a good thing.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

A heated debate. I feel the need t address a few points expressed in some replies here.

First of all, the FX1 is an excellent camera. And before most of us will suffer from the camera's limits, I think we will have o face many of our own limits. I have no trouble shooting HD and editing HD and downconvert at the last moment. There are different advantages to this, from image stabilization to magnification of a portion of the image, to slow motion effects. Not to talk about the beautiful results I get when I export to quicktime for MPEG. Actually, any Mac G5 with Lumiere, MPEG Stream, and Intermediate Codec can edit the HDV footage with no problems at all. You just need fast hard disks.

A limitation with the camera it's the interlacing. Some of you say you need 24p for film transfer and film look. But this is not all of us. If I want film look on film I'll shoot 16mm. HDV will transfer beautifully on film anyway, even if you shoot 60i, and I'm sure even with 25CF. I want progressive for one simple reason: interlace looks like s*** and it's a problem to work with. I only accepted getting an interlaced camera becau‚e it's high resolution and the CF downconverted is similar to a progressive SD cam.

Of course I would prefer a Panasonic progressive HDV camera, but it doesn't look like they are even thinking of selling anything similar before I get old. They are sleeping! And they think they can afford to because their DVX is selling well. What about Canon? If I was full time in a TV set I would not mind using their spacecraft looking camera, but in real life situations, I simply don't think a camera man should be the center of attention. I can imagine someone filming a marriage with the Canon: everybody will look at the strange machine trying to figure out what it is, and the bride will be ignored :-)

No. Unfortunately Sony is the only game in town for this market.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

Only a few quotes then I'm done :)

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#89 date=02/22/05 at 07:10:45]i its a highly compressed format that suffers from substandard audio, and comprmised video... even if its working flawlessly.... if there was an SD  mpg2 camera just like the DVX and then there was the DVX id take the DVX every time. it has nothing to do with HD. its with the quality of th audio and video encoding being used. i love everything else about the sony.[/quote]
This is what I love about it!! Compressed up the ass to fit on MiniDV... HD on miniDV.. wow! I had a debate with someone before where if the ultimate goal was to put video on DVD, would they capture DV AVI or go straight to mpeg2? We both agreed if you could eliminate another step to go to mpeg2. Really HD on a 13gig miniDV looking as good as it does is very impressive and efficient encoding... heck mpeg2 really has someweakness but like VHS had in the day, it really has some strengths. Likely the final output of HD will be seriously compressed anyways that unless you are doing compositing who cares really how compressed HDV is? DV sucks doing compositing too. This is where capturing to another codec will be used more often I think in editing and the Mac/PC/Panasonic/Sony prefered codec of choice will be in the spot light and fuel another editing debate as different systems adopt different capture codecs.
[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#89 date=02/22/05 at 07:10:45]
call me crazy.. say i hate HD or sony or whatever.. .
[/quote]
Ok... you hate the sony. That was easy. ;D
[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=75#89 date=02/22/05 at 07:10:45]
Im glad its here though. its really helped the industry along. its a good thing. [/quote]
Not as glad as I am. ;D Well at least you recognize that it definately hasn't crippled the industry... (I loved the metaphor examples by the way... a car.. a house of cards... very creative :) ) If you don't like it don't buy it... fair enough. I know Sony is notorious for making stupid formats but they also to make some great products. I'm glad they are putting the heat on Panasonic to go HD cause even though we all know HD is still early in the game, most people doing video want it now for HD source just because... now... not later... like why a tossed away my dial up modem... sure it worked... Cable modem... internet access now!... cause I want the info now!! :)
but which is better DSL or Cable modem... hahaha... Don't answer.. I DON'TCARE! ;D

K done... as much as I disagree and an baffled at times by the way some think... I'm fine to agree to disagree. (I'm sure you are equally baffled by the otherside) Very interesting point of views... you can tell when someone believes it or is just playin' devils advocate and I seriously believe now that you Neil, and some think this way. If that's truely the way you think... your right... the Sony will never make you happy. Have a fun wait for the Panny... I hope it's not too long... (for all our sakes... :) ) I want one too!!
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=90#91 date=02/22/05 at 12:21:56]Only a few quotes then I'm done :)

This is what I love about it!! Compressed up the ass to fit on MiniDV... HD on miniDV.. wow! I had a debate with someone before where if the ultimate goal was to put video on DVD, would they capture DV AVI or go straight to mpeg2? We both agreed if you could eliminate another step to go to mpeg2. [/quote]


your right about mpg2. its not a bad delivery format. espescially since we can take alot of time to run multiple passes or use really expensive hardware to get the most out of it. but its not at all a sought after format to originally capture to or do post with. if that was the case wed have been doing it for years. in reality its only used in HDV because HDV is HD on the cheap.. there are no plans to convert any cine altas- varicams- dalsas or viper filmstreams to mpg2. ..to use one of my neato metaphors. its kindof like a car vs an airplane. i wouldnt take a car to italy. id fly a plane and get in a car for the final trip from the airport. its not a good idea to try and take a car the whole way. cars werent desined for long overseas travel. airplanes were... even if i will eventually get delivered by a car.

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=90#91 date=02/22/05 at 12:21:56]
Ok... you hate the sony. That was easy. ;D[/quote]

LOL.. that really is funny... of course i dont hate it though ;) . ive made that pretty clear. ..anyway, its all in good gesture. i do seriously believe the world is round, and that the sony is not the right choice for me to buy into right now, and that when the panasonic is here you will indeed want one as you say. were all wacky , but at least were all filmmakers. lets make some good films. regardless of the camera used.
 
Re: Ready to purchase 2 Z1's

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=90#92 date=02/22/05 at 13:10:12]
..to use one of my neato metaphors. its kindof like  a car vs an airplane. i wouldnt take a car to italy. id fly a plane  and get in a car for the final trip from the airport. its not a good idea to try and take a car the whole way. cars werent desined for long overseas travel. airplanes were...  even if i will eventually get delivered by a car. [/quote]
hahaha... while I'm not sure that metaphor works, I get what you are saying ;D
[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1107145163;start=90#92 date=02/22/05 at 13:10:12]
lets make some good films. regardless of the camera used. [/quote]
True dat.... "insert handshake emoticon here" :)

Sounds good. I think this thread is done but still interested in jnolla's final decision... give us the final details once you've taken the plunge.
 
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