RE: Red Scarlet-X vs NEX-FS100?

I ordered a Scarlet. I own an FS100. Here's what I see as the FS100 advantages.

-Native ISO of Mysterium X chip is 320. FS100 native ISO I believe is 640 or 800. One for FS100 for having a more sensitive chip.
-Way cheaper media, SDHC vs SSD.
-Lens options considerably greater due to NEX mount's short FFD
-Price is right.

The advantages of the Scarlet are obvious. I don't have to spell out why I decided to purchase one.
 
Searcher said:
My god how people forget this. Marketing "4K" as necessary for the "cinematic" is part of a business plan.
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Actually DELIVERING 4K at a price point below any of the competitors is sheer business acumen. And he's been doing it for years now. RED One is real, shipping and shooting. Epic is real, shipping and shooting. He doesn't have to claim it's cinematic. RED productions have Oscar attached to them. Anyone who is actually SHOOTING at that level knows 4K is unnecessary. It's only in forums like this where it bandied about like it matters. How many 1080p productions have won Golden Globes or Oscars in the past few years? Plenty. The beauty of shooting on RED is the options. The OPTION to shoot 4K. The OPTION of shooting 120fps without having to go out and source a Phantom. The OPTION to post nearly end to end in RAW. The OPTION to use the same camera for VFX work without having to rent another rig to do clean greenscreen. The OPTION to actually PURCHASE the camera instead of simply renting it and a DIT like you do for a Genesis... RED brings a ton of hype to the game. But Jannard gets away with it because so far, he's backed up everything he's claimed. That carries a TON of weight where it matters.
 
PerroneFord said:
Actually DELIVERING 4K at a price point below any of the competitors is sheer business acumen. And he's been doing it for years now. RED One is real, shipping and shooting. Epic is real, shipping and shooting. He doesn't have to claim it's cinematic. RED productions have Oscar attached to them. Anyone who is actually SHOOTING at that level knows 4K is unnecessary. It's only in forums like this where it bandied about like it matters. How many 1080p productions have won Golden Globes or Oscars in the past few years? Plenty. The beauty of shooting on RED is the options. The OPTION to shoot 4K. The OPTION of shooting 120fps without having to go out and source a Phantom. The OPTION to post nearly end to end in RAW. The OPTION to use the same camera for VFX work without having to rent another rig to do clean greenscreen. The OPTION to actually PURCHASE the camera instead of simply renting it and a DIT like you do for a Genesis... RED brings a ton of hype to the game. But Jannard gets away with it because so far, he's backed up everything he's claimed. That carries a TON of weight where it matters.
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Ummmm... You state the word "DELIVERING". All caps too. Do you really think you're gonna deliver 4k footage for $14,015? Not shoot, but DELIVER. OK, thats brain, 2 batteries, 1 64gb card (have fun with just 1), monitor, side handle, yada yada yada... Oh yeah, you're DELIVERING 4k footage with EOS glass only as well. Thats just 4k Kool-aid my friend. Alright, now... Where are you going to have your EOS glass only 4K footage viewed in 4K? Imax cinema? Because it won't be in anybodys home. If it is Imax, I think you have a bigger budget than buying a Scarlet. Sony 4k digital cinema? Again, buy the Epic if you have something showing at an AMC theatre.
So really, what and who are you going to DELIVER your 4k footage to?
120 fps on a Scarlet? Have fun with that 1k delivery. How about 60fps on Scarlet? 1080p. 48fps? 3k. Options with Scarlet. well it looks like 1080p up to 60fps. So why with scarlet shoot 4k? Oh yeah, as a B cam to Epic. hmmmmm...You're better off renting the Phantom if you need 120fps and you have a Scarlet.
 
PerroneFord said:
Sorry, I wasn't talking Scarlet here since I was speaking in the past tense.
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Well, aren't we discussing the FS-100 and the Scarlet in this thread? But you are talking shooting OPTIONS with an all inclusive system. So what I'm saying is that if you shoot some 120fps on scarlet at 1k res, how will that jive with the scarlet 4k footage? On epic you can do it.
Easier to mix 1080/24 and 720/60 and have it be visually coherent. But really easy to mix 1080/24 and 1080/60 on an FS100. Now, lets see a camera that does 1080/120. Why not? The Social Network won an academy award with it's story, not resolution, or OPTIONS thereof.
 
Tested ISO myself on the FS100

Compared to my Canon 60D:

0 DB
Cinegamma 1 (Black Gamma +7) = ISO 500 60D
ITU709 (Black Gamma 0) = ISO 800 60D
 
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There is two things also that need to be considered. One is how fast the photosites fill up, which is the sensitivity, but the second thing is the noise floor. The FS100 is EXTREMELY quiet in terms of noise. Compared to the AF100 and 7D I was shocked at how clean the upper ISO's are. For some people, this doesn't matter. They control their lighting very carefully and don't mind using more light when needed. For others, like myself, I like having a camera that works over a wider range of light so I have more options in scenes. After shooting with an HVX for a year, we certainly like more freedom then less!!!

It's hard to compare the Scarlet and the FS100. I've been making these same questions to myself lately. Mainly, what will I gain going to a Scarlet. Sadly, taking out resolution, I'm just not sure.

The FS100 is VERY light, lighter than the AF100, F3, Scarlet, Epic, etc. In addition, the battery life is AMAZING! It is no lie that I've shot an entire day on one battery. That is a huge plus for me. I can carry one extra battery with me, not 4 or more on cameras that are power hungry.

Carrying SD cards too is really nice. an SSD is a lot more space, and when I am trekking through the woods, all weight and space matter for me.

Noise floor, as I've said, has been a huge plus for us.

I also agree with the issue of the Scarlet-X shooting in cropped for for 60p on up. ESPECIALLY at 120p. I've not used it so I cannot say, but I can tell you mixing 720p60 out of the 7D and 1080p24 did not work well. The 720p60 was HORRIBLE. Mixing 1080p60 and p24 out of the AF100 and FS100 (well AF100 in a 24p container) was a no brainer, looked great. Given Canon's 720p in their other S35 and up sensors, let's just say I'd be nervous about the quality.

I think for 1080p24 the Scarlet-X will be great. But I think if pushing $14to$15k is the top-end of your budget, you are really going to be hurting for battery and SSD space. Also, cropped mode means if you want to shoot a scene at 60p, that you just shot at 24p, you are going to have to change lenses or move, and the resolution difference WILL be apparent if you go all the way to 120fps.

I do really like my FS100, I just wish their was a mount that was electronic for my EOS lenses. That is what you can get with the Scarlet. That's going to be a huge plus for some people.

I'm sticking with my FS100 and not going to the Scarlet-X. At this time, it just does not make sense to me.
 
You are wise, Rick.
Anyone with experience shooting knows that the difference between what looks good on a FS100 vs a Scarlet will be far, far, far more dependent on your lighting, production design, costumes, and talent of yourself and your entire crew. For all the quibbling about 8 bit vs 10 bit, perceptually most people taking in a movie will never notice the difference unless you don't light correctly for your camera.

I put down for a Scarlet. But I'm already questioning whether I can pay that off in kit value within two years. Doubtful, since I work mostly in post production. So it becomes a vanity buy. Oh well, if I change my mind the worst I lose is $1400.
 
Doctor Wu said:
You are wise, Rick.
Anyone with experience shooting knows that the difference between what looks good on a FS100 vs a Scarlet will be far, far, far more dependent on your lighting, production design, costumes, and talent of yourself and your entire crew. For all the quibbling about 8 bit vs 10 bit, perceptually most people taking in a movie will never notice the difference unless you don't light correctly for your camera.

I put down for a Scarlet. But I'm already questioning whether I can pay that off in kit value within two years. Doubtful, since I work mostly in post production. So it becomes a vanity buy. Oh well, if I change my mind the worst I lose is $1400.
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It's very true that there are SO MANY variables in these decisions. The FS100 shoots great and since I have no need of 4k material as a destination, be it that I get the 4k our with the Scarlet or get the 4k in 1080p with the C300 is yet another variable. (I know the C300 was not mentioned in the question, but I think it's view as 4k is important and valid in a 1080p world since a bayer pattern does not resolve to the resolution of the bayer pattern, ever).

The 4K resolution on the Scarlet will not show you 4k of resolution in real life. I forget the number, but it is like 70% I thought (probably wrong but Barry can correct me :) ). ANYONE who claims their camera has a resolution of 4k with a bayer pattern is telling you just as much a half story. Just like when people quote EVERY dot on a LCD screen. Like, come on, what RGB resolution do I get?!? :)

Unfortunately, my consideration is now going to switch to lenses I think. I will wait and see what happens with the C300 price as we get closer, but if I am staying with the FS100 and the fact Birger I have no confidence of anything soon, I need lenses I can control aperture with.

When March comes around, I'll consider the 1Dx as well. For now, I just cannot see any advantage to me shooting on the Scarlet-X.
 
The scarlet is upgradable and a better buy for the quality you get. I doubted allot on wich to choose.


-The scarlet is more expensive and I don't know when I can expect it on my doormat. I can buy the FS100 now
-The FS100 don't have the dynamic range you expect in a high-end movie.The scarlet is super quality and will give the quality you need for every high-end production.
-Don't think the FS100 spec's will do within one or 2 years, think the scarlet is up to date for at least 3 years (not sure ofcourse).
-The scarlet will eat more memory on my external drives and the ssd recording media it require is (very) expensive.
 
Kyle McConaghy said:
Thanks, everyone. Good call on the reds. I used Magic Bullets color range wheels to get a little red out of there.

Is there a tool in Looks or Final Cut where you can (de)saturate one color channel while not affecting the others?

Thanks!
Kyle
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For the future, make sure you pull it down in camera a bit (obviously doesn't help for this). This will also help protect you from blowing out the red channel too quickly and getting poor highlight handling with respect to red.
 
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