RE: Red Scarlet-X vs NEX-FS100?

Already, really? I think one cost me 4,900 and the other cost 9,750 (12-13k built up), so how are they comparable? One shoots RAW, one doesn't. one shoots 4k, one doesn't, the only thing they really have in common is the size of the sensor, 35mm. F3 vs Scarlett would be a much fairer comparison.
 
You also need to think about post-production if you're doing it. Can you handle 4k footage?
 
After today's announcements, I'm more than comfortable with my FS100. For me, it's the right set of features (well, pretty close) at the right price (OK, cheaper would be better, of course....).

Sure, 50 mb/s, 422 and log gamma (Canon C300) would be nice, but $16k? No thanks. And of course 4K RAW (Scarlet) will probably be amazing... WHEN they ship, and IF they can make it work reliably. But that's also $14k, and add $1k per memory card, and $200 per battery.....

Nope, I'm content.
 
After seeing the prices on these new cams, I can say I'm glad I got my FS100. I was a little worried
that they were going to come out with something at the price point of the FS100/AF100 that was WAY better.
Now, to me, there is the AF100/FS100 at the 5k range, DSLR's for lower budget people, C300 (or whatever
the new Canon is called)/F3/ or Scarlet at the 15-20k range. All good cameras, and I'd love to have
any of them, but because of price/performance, I'm sticking with my FS100 right now and am lucky
that I didn't wait, because I wouldn't have been able to afford either of these anyways (as a non
'deficit spender' that has no credit history, I can't get credit.) Meanwhile, I have made back all
the money I came up with up front to buy the FS100 and more. But the Scarlet looks nice and I bet
there's a lot of people who will be jumping all over it!
 
I was about to sell my FS100 (already had a buyer) for the old fixed 2/3" scarlet. But the Epic Light is not what I asked for...
So I´m keeping my FS100. Of course the new Scarlet will deliver quality images far superior to the FS100, but the FS100 has advantages too:
1. Best lowlight on the market together with the F3
2. Battery Life. 10 h with one battery. The new scarlet runs abut 25 min per battery.
3. File Sizes. Jesus! Redcode Raw is great but I would have needed to buy harddiscs on a daily basis...
4. Greatest steadyshot of all times with the kit lens!
5. Decent in-built audio. I have no idea how to mount a microphone on the Scarlet. No Auto Gain.

Conclusion: For it´s purposes and prices, both, the Scarlet and the FS100 are the best bang for bucks!
 
alaskacameradude said:
... there is the AF100/FS100 at the 5k range, DSLR's for lower budget people, C300 (or whatever
the new Canon is called)/F3/ or Scarlet at the 15-20k range. All good cameras...
Click to expand...

Well said. But what amazes me is that there are still only 2 cameras in the $5k range...? Isn't this a pretty large market segment for camera makers to go after?

I'm not saying that I want my nice FS100 to be made obsolete, but more choice / competition is always good, and there seems to be a lack of much action here...
 
AtticusLake said:
Well said. But what amazes me is that there are still only 2 cameras in the $5k range...? Isn't this a pretty large market segment for camera makers to go after?

I'm not saying that I want my nice FS100 to be made obsolete, but more choice / competition is always good, and there seems to be a lack of much action here...
Click to expand...

I'm thinking rental houses will embrace the Scarlet & C300 just as they have the F3, the FS is too fragile for that arena

4K post is the norm these days, the post tools (Avid, Nuke, DS) i use are all very RED friendly, where AVCHD has been a PITA, and anything Qt has if not insane, at least dignosed bipolar color & gamma shifting about (unless DNx or Prorez), so Scarlet has a huge leg up there as well.

If the C300 recorded Prorez444 or DNxHD444 life would be very diffrent.. but 8bit Qt for 16K?

Yea Scarlet or F3 seem to be the choice unless one has the Canon fanboy blinders stuck on with crazyglue.

I'm very happy with the FS for the project we bought it for, need low light performance + recoverable cost similar to rental of a Alexa for the shoot dates, and FS is still the right fit for us.

d
 
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AtticusLake said:
Well said. But what amazes me is that there are still only 2 cameras in the $5k range...? Isn't this a pretty large market segment for camera makers to go after?

I'm not saying that I want my nice FS100 to be made obsolete, but more choice / competition is always good, and there seems to be a lack of much action here...
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree. This market segment seems to me to be kind of a 'hot spot' of activity.
Smaller one man production companies will look in this price range. Advanced hobbyists seem to
as well. Kind of the old PD-150/170, DVX100, XL-1/2 territory...and then later the HVX200/EX-1
territory. It has seemed to be pretty hot ground in the past, for there to be only 2 big chip
cameras residing here is kind of strange. But then again, that's two more than there were last
year at this time, so I won't complain too much. Maybe they are thinking it is too close to
DSLR ground?? Crappy economy?? Not sure what is going on here. We may well see that market
segment pick up this year, but who knows?
 
Also consider that with a $3000 investment in a external recorder which makes the total financial outlay $8000, you will be equal to Canons new camera and its considerably cheaper. And lets be honest the scarlet is not $9750 and its not $14,000. It considerably more than 14k if you want to shoot for a long day and edit quickly as tthe FS100 can.
 
mico said:
Also consider that with a $3000 investment in a external recorder which makes the total financial outlay $8000, you will be equal to Canons new camera and its considerably cheaper.
Click to expand...

Excellent point!

mico said:
And lets be honest the scarlet is not $9750 and its not $14,000. It considerably more than 14k if you want to shoot for a long day and edit quickly as tthe FS100 can.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like $1,000 per memory card... $200 for a battery (with super-short battery life?)... never mind the editing system.
 
Yes totally agreed, the FS100 strikes the price/performance niche for sure. We can record long, edit easily and have pretty good dynamic range off of AVCHD, not to mention low light as well.

Plus the FS100 has one huge advantage over the Scarlet-X and C300, integrated flip screen!!! The FS100 is the most portable and functional in that regard than the C300 and Scarlet-X as both have a detachable top mounted screen.

Doing glidetrack work is so easy with the FS100.
 
Also scarlet, just the brain only is 5lbs add lens , battery, lcd, , evf, and you're over 10lb territory making some sliders , steadicams, cranes, tripods, etc. obsolete. Needs more storage, fast computer it goes on and on and before you know it you're over 20 grand in.

Red is really funny this way. They do this all the time like quoting a low price like $9750 right at the beginning knowing it will get posted all over that this cam is under 10k. In what world? 10K gets you a brain thats it. How do you shoot by just spending $9750 with just a brain? You can't.
 
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Also, even all the 'price outs' I've seen adding on stuff to the Scarlet, they don't add a lens! Now I realize many people
may already have a lens that will work with the Scarlet, but plenty of us don't as well. Now you need a lens for any camera,
obviously, but at least with the FS100 you CAN get it with the kit lens, and start shooting 'out of the box', and add
other lenses and adapters later. I'd just HATE to spend 10 grand or 15 grand and get the camera and have it sitting there
until I could get a lens. It's a great camera, no doubt, it's just for people who live in a whole nother world than me,
with bigger client budgets and bigger gear budgets for their company.
 
True. Red cameras are rental items not purchases, especially in this ever changing technological world we live in. Things happen fast. What once was top can be bottom tomorrow. So if you need RED rent. Personally the real game changer will be if Sony updated the fs100 with 4:2:2 10 bit to card, another stop of DR, some ND's and at the same price point. If that happens then all will be good with the camera world.

Funny I just got a text from a friend saying scarlet is under 10k. Like I said RED is funny with their marketing.

Another thing to bring up is dependability. As much as alot of people like to bash the big camera companies and champion the small innovator for most of us our Sony camera works dependably. For those of you that live by his word read Phillip Blooms summary where he mentions that he has had numerous issues with his epic. The cameras have always been buggy, even the new ones. If you want a scarlet I would wait until after February when theres a couple of them in the wild. and if buggy is okay with you make sure to extend your warranty by spending an extra $1500 for an extra 2 years of insurance for that bugginess.
 
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I respect the Canon C300 in all it's trying to do. It's price point is wrong, the lack of IS and AF is a shame, but if it were half the price, I'd be switching.

I like the 422 codec, I like the EOS lenses with iris control, and I even may admit, in public, to kinda liking the form factor - but I also like recumbent bicycles and the chapman stick.

I think I can understand where the designers were coming from, and I think I agree with them. The marketeers who decided to up the price from $14k to $20k have totally missed the market. It's not a pocket money Alexa. It's not an F3. The price point is where the pundits put it: $10k to $15k.

But it doesn't have any Auto help, which puts it out of the Videographer ballpark. If it did Image Stabilisation and Auto Focus like Red's scarlet, it would be the high end choice. However, it has a higher than high end price that compares it disfavourably with the Red Scarlet, it has sadly lacking features, and doesn't play nice with its own lenses.

HOORAY FOR FS100! I love this little camera, it's the 'little camera that could' and I'm going to continue with it for now. Images to die for, form factor that I love because it's channelling the Bronica ETRS (after Hasselblad, favourite camera I've owned of all time), and it's everything that the Epic and C300 isn't: efficient codec, high stamina power, beautiful images for little cash, 12 stop dynamic range (check Andy Shipsides) on SD card, amazing 'lego brick' foundation for your very own monster camera which is still just a box brownie if you need it.

Dudes, I am so at peace now, with my FS100, glad I stayed up late all night for those announcements in the UK.

Watching Mr Florette's movie 'Mobius', I wondered what it would look like if he were given a PD150. I think it would have worked as a film, if not as a commercial.

I think that is what it's all about, is it not?
 
mico said:
Red is really funny this way. They do this all the time like quoting a low price like $9750 right at the beginning knowing it will get posted all over that this cam is under 10k. In what world? 10K gets you a brain thats it. How do you shoot by just spending $9750 with just a brain? You can't.
Click to expand...

Gee, just like DSLRs. Hey, it's less than $1500! Uh, yea until you add all the REAL functionality. Same, same.
 
I like you perrone, so this is not a bash. I notice your postings recently are defending RED which really isn't necessary since its a capable camera with a more than adoring website of its own. I don't have any problems with RED but thats not a good comparison and you know it. Canon never expected it to be used the way it has been and out of the box I charge the battery on a dslr pop on a lens and I can shoot. The red brain just sits there. And almost every add on accessory that you need for the RED is almost the price of DSLR.
I'm not bashing RED just that that $9750 number is truly meaningless but they throw it out anyway to get everyones attention just like they did with the red one ( which I owned once) and everytime I see someone post its only 5K more than a Fs100 I cringe. Its like $15k more.

By the way, before I sold it over a year ago, my $17,500 red one actually cost me $27,000 bare shooting minimum sans lens. Jannard got to be a billionaire by being a businessman first and foremost.
 
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Canon hyped this thing as a 4K camera.... Tell me how that's any different in terms of marketing? At least if you spend the money, the RED can deliver. I could spend $100k on the Canon and I still will only get 1080p and no RAW out of the thing. I am not defending RED the company. I am merely saying that in a straight up comparison, the Scarlet completely bends this Canon over. Show me ONE person who's seriously ready to put down the cash on a Scarlet that doesn't understand it's a $15k system and not a $9700 one.
 
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