FS5: RAW CDNG Odyssey Image

SamEd said:
I suspect that 11bits is about as many as Sony can push down a single SDI pipe. The quality is amazing. For years we did huge hollywood VFX shows in 10 bit log DPX. 11 is more!
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Sure it is amazing, but my impression was that it is a 12 bit linear raw, and I would have expected to end up with 12 bit CDNG.

Mitch, can you state something about if the CDNG from the Q7+ is 11 or 12bit?
 
SamEd said:
Hey Paul,
I like your blog and really appreciate the work you've shared. I'd love to get one of your Nuke scripts to see how you do your measurements.
I don't believe the white balance is baked with the FS5/Odyssey RAW combo. I'll try to do a more controlled test soon to verify.
Best Wishes,
Sam
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Thank you, PM me for details if you like!

wschmid said:
Nobody said that this example is near to clipping, and it can be developed with the recommended log tools and contrast between 0 and 100 IRE in a great way. I think it should be recorded as 12bit and I wonder why it should be 11bit??
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I think you need to remember that a linear signal means that the brightest stops contain a lot more of the tonality. In fact the last stop before clipping holds nearly half of the available values. So for the best tonality it always pays to try and expose as close to the right as possible. You want to stay away from the shadows as best you can. Within reason.

SamEd said:
I suspect that 11bits is about as many as Sony can push down a single SDI pipe. The quality is amazing. For years we did huge hollywood VFX shows in 10 bit log DPX. 11 is more!
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Maybe, they do well enough to get RAW down a single SDI anyway but it is compressed. I don't see why we can have 12 bits. No matter how you cut it, getting RAW out of something as small as the FS5 is awesome.

Those 10bit dpx are in log format though, these 11 bit files are linear. Huge difference in tonal range sadly.

cheers
Paul
 
The point that linear raw has a lot of information in the last stop is well known and was one of the reasons, why banding occurres in some cases at the lower stops. The example shown here seems to be shoot more toward the left instead to the right, at least if you umport that into Resolve. There is some kind of color noise in some areas also od yellow walls in this first test shoot, and I wonder if that would have take place if this footage would have been shoot more toward right.
 
Mitch Gross said:
If you are recording in CinemaDNG, 4K above 30p and 2K about 120p require two SSDs in order to keep up with the data rate. Otherwise only one SSD is required. In RAW->ProRes modes only one SSD is ever required.
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Mitch, do you think it's possible for the Odyssey to eventually record the compressed RAW data coming from the FS5? This would eliminate the need for two SSDs. Then a plugin would be required for the user to install in their NLE to uncompress the files. This is what Blackmagic currently does with their compressed DNGs, and it works great.

I hope this is doable because uncompressed 4K RAW files are gargantuan, especially at 60P!
 
You can use any LUT you wish, but currently the Odyssey7Q+ will decode the image based on S-Log2 so that is the Picture Profile setting we require. That way it matches what is seen on the camera.
 
wschmid said:
Sure it is amazing, but my impression was that it is a 12 bit linear raw, and I would have expected to end up with 12 bit CDNG.

Mitch, can you state something about if the CDNG from the Q7+ is 11 or 12bit?
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I cannot comment on the structure of the file. Sony has closed code that we are instructed to use. It outputs a certain form and that is what we then work with.
 
Ralph B said:
Mitch, do you think it's possible for the Odyssey to eventually record the compressed RAW data coming from the FS5? This would eliminate the need for two SSDs. Then a plugin would be required for the user to install in their NLE to uncompress the files. This is what Blackmagic currently does with their compressed DNGs, and it works great.

I hope this is doable because uncompressed 4K RAW files are gargantuan, especially at 60P!
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: FSRAW is in and of itself a dead end. There is no post system in existence that reads it. It is different in nature to the RA format used in the F5/F55 as well as that used on the F65. The only thing that can be done with FS RAW is to turn it into another RAW format that can then be read by a post system. Sony outputs the RAW data to us via a programming module that we must use and make function within our system. It is a "closed" module, in that we have very little ability to manipulate it and can only do so at a certain point in the process. This is true for anyone working with FSRAW data. When the data comes to us it is uncompressed and we restructure it to the CinemaDNG format. We do other stuff as well, which is why we have been able to improve the image over time. But the code module provided by Sony is VERY processor intensive and there is simply not enough room left to also compress the code afterward and do it at the quality that we always demand. Remember that we always do everything in realtime. If the recompression was not done properly then concatenation errors could and likely would occur, creating unwanted artifacts in the image. So no, it is not going to happen, but you could load it into your computer and then use software such as SlimRaw to compress the file size.
 
Hey Mitch,
The Odyssey does an incredible job of maintaining the quality of image coming off the sensor. I am so happy that I went with this solution. I'm also really grateful that you've gone with off the shelf SSD's.
Great work!
 
Hey Mitch,
How about S-Gammut 4300k? Great for exterior work at night.... I know you can set it afterwards in your app, but it would be cool if you could decode it directly.
 
SamEd said:
Hey Mitch,
How about S-Gammut 4300k? Great for exterior work at night.... I know you can set it afterwards in your app, but it would be cool if you could decode it directly.
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We will have some expansion of settings in the future. In particular many people would like to see S-Log3 workflow as well as other S-Gammut settings, including the CINE versions. At least some of these will come in time. For now, we have a fully functional way the FS5 can be used to shoot RAW with the Odyssey7Q+ at a greater variety of frame rates, resolutions and recording formats than any other device.
 
Hey Mitch,
You don't have to sell me. I'm your biggest fan. And I'm looking forward to what you come up with next. Awesome work!
BTW Our 'making of' crew was shooting with the FS5 today. I told them all about the RAW update and the O7Q+. They'll probably do it just to get 4k 120fps. I'll take mine to set to show them...
Cheers,
Sam
 
I've been playing around with the exposure tools and they're awesome. Thanks for reminding me. Hopefully I can shoot some better tests on Friday.
 
With Odyssey working so well with FS5 it seems even more like it's time for an Odyssey 5Q - ie a 5" version which would pair nicely with the smaller camera.
Even better an Odyssey EVF...? Simple controls on the EVF and a wired control unit for when needing to change more intricate settings.
Steve
 
I agree a 5" version would be better. Maybe they could find something faster/smaller to record to so we could still do RAW without a raid. Wifi streaming and an iPad app for control would also be really cool.
 
SamEd said:
Hey Mitch,
You don't have to sell me. I'm your biggest fan. And I'm looking forward to what you come up with next. Awesome work!
BTW Our 'making of' crew was shooting with the FS5 today. I told them all about the RAW update and the O7Q+. They'll probably do it just to get 4k 120fps. I'll take mine to set to show them...
Cheers,
Sam
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Thanks, not trying to sell you. Lots of others read these forums.
 
steve phillipps said:
With Odyssey working so well with FS5 it seems even more like it's time for an Odyssey 5Q - ie a 5" version which would pair nicely with the smaller camera.
Even better an Odyssey EVF...? Simple controls on the EVF and a wired control unit for when needing to change more intricate settings.
Steve
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Me and other FS5 shooters I know would also jump on a 5" version in a heartbeat. Have the smaller mSATA SSD drives come far enough in performance to replace the current 2.5" SSDs? The Samasung 840 EVO mSATA has great benchmarks and less power consumption than it's bigger brother.
 
fantastic footage.
i really think this combination is a winner.

someone got some more fs5 dngs?
especially interested in skintones.


my grade:


zbl9o3ae.jpg
 
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