Racing car

morgan_moore said:
With speaker stacks and drum kits or rear tailpips.. I might be there to collect some CU footage and the on camera mic is coming even if not gathering recorded sound.
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Just for reference: condensers are often used on drum kits. I always have small-diaphragm condensers as overheads. I tend to prefer dynamics on snare and toms, but then the kick can be either. There are condensers made specifically for mic'ing kick-in. But then, you're not getting a dangerous dose of SPL standing next to a drum kit (the kind that can cause hearing damage), but you most certainly are standing right in front of a PA stack.

No, the on-camera mic probably won't suffer in front of the stack, but I'll bet the audio is going to be useless in post.
 
The 'damaging' mics thing is often a concern for people, but every since my first 57 in 76, I have killed a total of three microphones - my current stock is over 100. All three were damaged by water. Two by direct contact and one with excess humidity. Humidity often produces strange noises and crackling on condensers, but usually drying them in a warm dry environment fixes them. AKG414 and 451's both recovered. The Rode NT1 did not. Used as a general room sound pickup in a swimming pool for a video shoot over 1 month, used twice each week, but the rigging took ages, so I elected to leave it in place. By week 4 it was crackly and I couldn't use it. after the event completed I tried drying it but something in the air had caused a strange deposit to form on the diaphragm. I tried to clean it and wrecked it totally. The other two got soaked at a festival.

High SPL can cause the gap between the membrane and backplate to touch - especially on transient sounds like drums, and you get a huge crack, but I've never killed the mic - it just makes a terrible noise. More common is the preamp overloads and you get a nasty 'tizzy' recording. I also never follow all the rules on ribbons and dynamics regarding connecting/disconnecting while power is applied. With the mic live, there is again a huge 'crack' but I have never destroyed a mic with loud sound ever. I have produced totally useless audio many times. AKG C451 mics had a screw on attenuator, which I never had, and these have produced rotten audio through to high a sound level, many times. Bottoming out a 414, or U87 to produce the nasty crack I have never done. They seem well designed enough to not do that on any level I have ever had, sound wise. Distort the preamp? Yes, but the pads work well.

I have broken plenty of mics physically. Not one through exposure to loud sound. They are tools. Even expensive ones will be damaged at some point. I've just learned to live with it. If you record live stuff on stage, or do live sound, then mic stand collapses, cable trips, even errant flight case crunches are pretty common. Seeing a nice mic come back with a grill dent used to worry me, but now, I just test them and the occasional intermittent connection or crackles are normal - they just get put somewhere warm till we have time to pull them out and fix/check them. In all my years, the only totally wrecked decent mic was an AKG D202, that came back in a zillion pieces, run over by a flightcase wheel.
 
Alex H. said:
Just for reference: condensers are often used on drum kits. I always have small-diaphragm condensers as overheads. I tend to prefer dynamics on snare and toms, but then the kick can be either. There are condensers made specifically for mic'ing kick-in. But then, you're not getting a dangerous dose of SPL standing next to a drum kit (the kind that can cause hearing damage), but you most certainly are standing right in front of a PA stack.

No, the on-camera mic probably won't suffer in front of the stack, but I'll bet the audio is going to be useless in post.
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Yes if im doing a cu of the bass drum i could be placing the camera 8im from the pedal with a mic on top. Im not expecting usable sound from that mic.
Personal safety - i use “chainsaw” ear defenders.
 
I agree a dynamic mic is the most durable and can take really loud noises next in the chain is mic pre amps and gain staging.

because this is such an unusual usage it’s more of trial and error to determine the best location of the mics.

While you seem to be concerned with the sound pressure the more likely concern would be mounting vibrations or mic getting damaged by moving mechanisms or heat in the engine compartment. It’s like taking perfectly fine mic and mounting it to your camera and getting handling noise or poor positioning. The application of the mic is more important than the mic.
 
It is pure lack of knowledge that has made me scared of SPL. Not fact or experience.

Im crawling about the stage sticking my lens in the drum kit 8 inches from the snare and my sanken is on the camera 4in from the snare and I have

though.. "hmm is this a good idea - maybe I can break it"

Maybe it is fine -( im probably not even recoding sound at that point)
 
People seldom think about all the factors outside of the mic. Like people say lavs sound bad but if we put our head directly against the person chest yes it would sound bad like that too. Go into a room with hard floors walls ceiling now it sound bad. I doubt you're climbing into the engine compartment and closing the hood to determine what the acoustics sound like. We also associate the proper sound with what we hear in movies but they usually use tricks to make it sound good. For example gunshots sound more impressive in movies than they do IRL.

All that being said your last attempt would be what I would consider good enough for a regular viewer. Could you improve it? Probably. Will anyone notice? No matter what its fun experiment and do what ever makes you happy that's often what really matters.
 
Im old now, but I too in my career have ended up in places that with common sense and hindsight, I should not have been. I use an app on my phone sometimes and SPL can be scary. Right next to a sub speaker is a pet hate. I always have ear protection now and luckily, my elderly hearing is still pretty good. The good thing is my ears will die well before any mic! The maximum SPL they publish, is ear shattering - literally!

For me, worst ever position was at the end of a runway with two Jaguar aircraft far, far too close. Camera mic was fine. crunchy sounding but my ears took days to recover. Audio was truly awful and got overdubbed.
 
I hear you. :) I wear over-ear protection for anything power tool related. Even mowing the lawn. The worst audio situation for me was filming at a drag strip and being behind some mega dragster exhaust pipe which seemed to alter weather patterns with the amount of air it displaced!! Stupid is the only word I can come up with.
 
I would be more concerned about heat than high SPLs.. though a SM57 (or 58) can take a lot of abuse. I would just mount it away from the exhaust manifold(s).
 
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