Bassman2003
Veteran
We all have blind spots and too much to do at times. Hopefully you can have a 2nd chance!
Racing car
- Thread starter morgan_moore
- Start date
Charlie Ross
Member
I am going to assume as an old Cortina, it is normally aspirated. Try the air intake as an optimum location. The roar of air is a good measure of the work the engine is doing, without all the clatter and racket of the exhaust. Instead of thinking "just put a mic in the engine bay" start at the intake duct. In my years of trying to figure out pleasing audio from my motorcycles, I now suspend a lavalier next to the intake box which in my case is where the tank and the seat meet. I leave about 2 inches of cable hanging freely before there is a hard and fast hold down to the frame. As long as the capsule cannot strike anything with that slack in the cable letting it swing with turns, braking, etc.
The lav' capsule has its own tiny foam cover and I experiment with how much additional foam to wrap around that if I need to tone it down. It pretty much has eliminated any adjacent "clutter" mechanical noises from being picked up. A lot of times that's the only mic I record - it pretty much tells the story of what the motorcycle is doing and is "clean" enough I can play with the volume if I want to add a music track or a voice over. I can hear the gearing whine as well.
sample mp4 2m33
A cheap passive mixer could take that signal plus any attempt to string a mic near the exhaust and get those two sounds balanced to suit. On my motorcycles I ended up keeping an exhaust mic tucked up in the tail piece body work. Anything more direct just gets way too much raucous noise from the pipes. If you think about it, the intake and the exhaust rise and fall in unison with the revs of the engine so one mixed down signal into the recorder once they are balanced for volume should do. That leaves your 2 CH recorder with an input to play with the crunchy sound I think you are after from the wheels.
The lav' capsule has its own tiny foam cover and I experiment with how much additional foam to wrap around that if I need to tone it down. It pretty much has eliminated any adjacent "clutter" mechanical noises from being picked up. A lot of times that's the only mic I record - it pretty much tells the story of what the motorcycle is doing and is "clean" enough I can play with the volume if I want to add a music track or a voice over. I can hear the gearing whine as well.
sample mp4 2m33
A cheap passive mixer could take that signal plus any attempt to string a mic near the exhaust and get those two sounds balanced to suit. On my motorcycles I ended up keeping an exhaust mic tucked up in the tail piece body work. Anything more direct just gets way too much raucous noise from the pipes. If you think about it, the intake and the exhaust rise and fall in unison with the revs of the engine so one mixed down signal into the recorder once they are balanced for volume should do. That leaves your 2 CH recorder with an input to play with the crunchy sound I think you are after from the wheels.
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Much improved! On the editorial side, the panning is a bit odd, and I tend to keep the layers all running through the picture cuts, and simply adjust relative mix levels between them as needed when changing perspective. The interior ambient mic with the engine and exhaust (or intake) still layered underneath can open up the “room” while still maintaining the energy of the car.
Grabbing all the little startup sounds was a great choice as well.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Edit.. Im sorting out the panning I hope.. thanks for that
Panning do you mean left/right . I though it was all mono.. but my laptop is not helpful even through cans.
In term of jump cutting ths sound and level, which I do sometimes that is an 'artistic choice to say 'time has moved on'
There are a coupld of shots where the sound is not true .. like a CU of gear change using the audio from the wider shot before.
Panning do you mean left/right . I though it was all mono.. but my laptop is not helpful even through cans.
In term of jump cutting ths sound and level, which I do sometimes that is an 'artistic choice to say 'time has moved on'
There are a coupld of shots where the sound is not true .. like a CU of gear change using the audio from the wider shot before.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Maybe here.. panning sorted, my fav shot from day one pasted on.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
the camera bit..
Bassman2003
Veteran
Sounds like a race car! But that side door sounds like a junk yard car!
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Absolutely. Its a skinny tin box with a muscle engine.Sounds like a race car! But that side door sounds like a junk yard car!
It is so far from todays vehicles
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
The fuss is.. first run version did not sound good.
I was worried about ruining the microphones. (which I still dont understand!)
Im still not clear which mics types dont get 'clipped'
S
Bassman2003
Veteran
The mic info is easy to Google. Just dive in for 20 minutes and you will be able to pick it all up. The main two types are dynamic and condenser.
It all depends on the materials used in building the mic, but it comes down to sensitivity and SPL handling. You just want to make sure that the mic you choose has plenty of headroom for the sound source you’re trying to record.
Condenser mics are active. Phantom power activates the capsule along with an impedance conversion circuit in the mic chassis. They often have lower SPL handling, and due to the active circuitry have hotter output signals. Dynamic mics generate their own signals without external power, often having higher SPL handling, and have lower output signals because they’re passive.
Every microphone spec sheet should have an SPL rating, as well as sensitivity, signal to noise ratio, and self-noise rating. I say “should”, as I find one or two of these missing from spec sheets on occasion.
As for clipping and distortion, that can happen when the capsule is pushed to its limits, or it can happen within the circuitry (either in the mic, or in the preamp). Damage really only comes from pushing a mic past its handling limits for a prolonged period (except for ribbon mics, which are much more fragile, but that’s an entirely different conversation).
It’s all about picking the right tool for the job, and knowing which tools are better in which situations.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Thank you for this, it is helpful.
Maybe we could get some specifics. I have my 'posh' sanken CS1 (I leave that at home unless its a corporate interview) and the attached 'free with a sony and rode video mics.
1) When im at a thrash band, large concert or motorsport even im afaid of breaking my mics - Is this a legit worry?
2) at a similar event what mic might I add for super close micing of motors exhausts speaker stacks whatever loud thing
A quick google shows "
Sennheiser XS 1 Dynamic Cardioid Vocal Microphone"
This seems affordable and a couple of those might work for recording loud stuff?my current motley crew.. one says ecm XM1 the stero mic is branded sony and was 'free' with the F3 the rode video mic was from my 5d2.
Kubicixfactor
Active member
Really nice video, it has a great 70s vibe to it, brilliant stuff!
Bassman2003
Veteran
Alex can weigh in on this but I see mics as very durable outside of physical impacts like dropping and being submerged in water etc... Sound (environment) alone is not a concern to me. You might damage your recording, but not your mic.
Some condensers need to be handled with care. Reality, too, is that dynamic mics are often built with more rugged design and materials for rough handling.
Sam, what you show in your mic selection pictured above is a small gathering of cheaper on-camera mics. Durability is not part of that realm, generally... that's why they're provided free with cameras. And the RØDE VideoMic is also not the most robust microphone out there.
I've already kind of outlined my recommendations, but to summarize: dynamics for up-close micing of high-SPL sources, condensers for ambient stereo array recording. The Shure SM57 is a great tool for engine compartments, exhaust, etc. Lavs can also be planted in various places to grab extra elements in and around a vehicle.
My basic SFX recording package includes two SM57s, a Shure VP-88 mid-side stereo condenser, a stereo pair of sE Electronics SE8 condensers, and an assortment of contact mics. I have other microphones that I can grab when I need them, but those are the ones I tend to start with in the Pelican case. I also keep a Tascam DR-22WL (no longer manufactured) as a grab-and-go or a stereo plant recorder.
To mic a PA stack at a concert... first and foremost, that's not the best solution for recording a concert. Recording a feed from the FOH console, when possible, plus a stereo array for the room, can yield better results. The board feed is a sticky wicket, though. If the FOH engineer cares enough, and has the extra mix busses available, a custom AUX or matrix mix is the second best way to go (first best: multitracking off the console, either via USB or Dante). If the board feed is just a copy of the house mix, it's going to suck, but that's where the room mics (middle or back of the room, pointed toward the stage) can help store some balance. IN a perfect world, too, you'd have something like a short shotgun on each downstage corner, behind the stack, pointed at the crowd.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Thanks Alex. Two questions:
Which type, brand or level of condensers need to be handled with care?
Can you define handling with care compared to normal use and storage in a case?
Which type, brand or level of condensers need to be handled with care?
Can you define handling with care compared to normal use and storage in a case?
Higher-end condensers, and especially large-diaphragm studio condensers, aren't made to be tossed around. Even some of the high-end small-diaphragm condensers from Neumann, ADK, etc., I wouldn't put into a situation where they'll get banged around. The mic elements are also a factor. Condensers often have things like gold-sputtered pickups and much more delicate electronics. Dynamics are basically using the old "magnet and a coil" principle that we all learned about in middle school science class.
Mics that you'd put on a boom? Sure, they can take a little bit of abuse, but I'm really talking about extreme situations where the mic itself may suffer physical damage. And back to recording high-performance cars, I just wouldn't want to subject mics like my 8050 to the conditions in an engine compartment. Dynamics like the SM57, SM58, 635a/RE50... those can take some physical abuse and still function just fine. They're also much cheaper to replace if they get destroyed.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Thanks for your information Alex!
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Thank you for your input. Clearly me being 'scared' of high SPL damaging a mic is not too much of an issue.
With speaker stacks and drum kits or rear tailpips.. I might be there to collect some CU footage and the on camera mic is coming even if not gathering recorded sound.
General robustness is not a worry.. lm not going to be rougher than I would with any lens.. its only damage from SPL that scares me... basically a non issue.