Racing car

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morgan_moore

Major Contributor
Im playing with a race tuned vintage Cortina.

I have my SD702 recorder.

I think I leave my lover sanken CS1 at home for safe keeps.

This leaves me with three sony mics.. the stock camera mics and a a sony good lavalier

My main concern is damage due to SPL

and second desire is to get a bit of chunky noise.

Any hints? thanks
 
my subject as well as silly cars does music. Maybe he has a mic i could nick.. the sort of thing that might be pointed at the drum kit?
 
Are you concerned with damage to the mic from high SPL levels from the engine? I would not think that is a concern under most conditions. How close will the mic be to the sound? Just pull it back a bit.
 
Its in the engine bay. Im a total newb at such matters. Youtube had some little rode mics that i have borrowed simlar
 
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What all are you trying to capture? I’ve worked with race cars, and getting good recordings comes from mic placement for a few different perspectives. It’s also best served with more than two available record tracks, though I suppose a few recordings of different setups could work. Just don’t expect things like engine acceleration and gear shifting to match up perfectly between takes.

I tend to avoid condensers for most placements, in favor of classic dynamics like the SM57, because of the high SPL. This also requires a LOT of zip ties. An SM57 or two tied to the frame inside the engine compartment, an SM57 by the exhaust, and even something in or near the wheel well to catch some of the tire on the road: these all add up to layers of detail. Additionally, I’ll typically go for a stereo pair (condenser) inside the car for the interior perspective.

And, very importantly, zip-tie everything - mics and cables - very securely. Not only do you want to avoid your mics getting destroyed, you’ll want to avoid them and the cables coming loose and damaging the vehicle.
 
Why on earth do you want a mic in the engine bay? Remember that the sound people recognise of performance cars is heard at a distance. The actual sound of what happens in the engine bay says nothing about power, speed and engine capacity. Its all tappets, knocking and cooling! You want power sounds? You need what comes out of the rear end. I have also never damaged any microphone with SPL. However, loud sounds are horrible sounding when the internal preamps clip. The SM57 is a sensible solution, because of its design. If you cannot afford to sacrifice a 57’s hundred quid, sacrifice a fake 57 and thats about 25 quid now. You will also need a decent pad for your recorder if the sound level is that high. Probably 30dB at least. I suspect I would have a small lav, wrapped in foam, peeping out from the boot lid, over the exhaust. That would be what people hear, not the rattle and bangs from the engine bay.

Put a mic in your own car’s engine bay, and rev it up a few times. You will find it very unexciting.
 
I wanted a mic in the engine may as..

-the bonnet is a great wind sheild!
-youtube told me that is a good place

The recorder I used was the canon C200.
The mic was the Rode M5

Clearly great synch is valuable. Im stressed to use my zcam+sound devices 702 as synch will be a pita.


So.. FK up numer one.. I didnt record the engine due to the c200 settings
fk up number 2 to 100.. other things visual.

anyway here are some clips and the tail pipe mic.

Most import lesson of filming cars.. it is this is DRIVEN by audio

 
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paulears said:
Why on earth do you want a mic in the engine bay? Remember that the sound people recognise of performance cars is heard at a distance. The actual sound of what happens in the engine bay says nothing about power, speed and engine capacity. Its all tappets, knocking and cooling! You want power sounds? You need what comes out of the rear end. I have also never damaged any microphone with SPL. However, loud sounds are horrible sounding when the internal preamps clip. The SM57 is a sensible solution, because of its design. If you cannot afford to sacrifice a 57’s hundred quid, sacrifice a fake 57 and thats about 25 quid now. You will also need a decent pad for your recorder if the sound level is that high. Probably 30dB at least. I suspect I would have a small lav, wrapped in foam, peeping out from the boot lid, over the exhaust. That would be what people hear, not the rattle and bangs from the engine bay.

Put a mic in your own car’s engine bay, and rev it up a few times. You will find it very unexciting.
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Wholeheartedly disagree with this, Paul, on (almost) every level.

The engine compartment is but one piece of the puzzle, yet is an important one. The excitement for the viewer comes from a clever mix of engine, exhaust, and tires on the road, blended with a good stereo perspective from inside the cab of the vehicle. And, for good measure (assuming the visuals include such shots), stereo recordings of drive-bys help complete the story.

The engine is more than “tappets, knocking and cooling”. It’s loud. It’s growly. It changes as gears shift. As long as the recording is properly gain-staged, what comes out of this mic placement is incredibly useful and surprisingly detailed.

Now, the choice of SM57 over condenser is less about damage and more about SPL handling and avoiding clipping in the mic itself. Of course, extended exposure beyond SPL handling can damage a mic, but… this is more about keeping recordings clean.
 
morgan_moore said:
I want ed a mic in the engine may as..

-the bonnet is a great wind sheild!
-you tube told me that is a good place

The recorder I used was the canon C200.
The mic was the Rode M5

Clearly great synch is valuable. Im strewssed to use my zcam+sound devices 702 as synch will be a pita.

So.. FK up numer one.. I didnt record the engine due to the c200 settings
fk up number 2 to 100.. other things visual.

anyway here are some clips and the tail pipe mic.
Click to expand...

A mic at the tail pipe gives you some good sounds (though this recording is quite overmodulated), but also sounds very flat and dull by itself. It needs other sources and perspectives to blend and open up the mix.

I don’t typically trust in-camera recording for, well, much at all. But in this use case, I’d have been more tempted to put dynamics in the engine and at the exhaust, straight into your 702, and place the M5 pair in a stereo array inside the cab recording to the C200, just to utilize the extra available record channels.

morgan_moore said:
Most import lesson of filming cars.. it is this is DRIVEN by audio
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Absolutely. As I’ve stated before, the best results come from a blend of mic perspectives.

morgan_moore said:
Its hard to adjust the audio setting on the back of the camera - lesson 37.
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Gain staging for recordings like this usually calls for a bit more conservative approach, especially for the mics placed close to the louder sources. Engine and exhaust are going to be very loud, but also fairly constant while the car is running down the road. Check levels before heading out by having the engine rev a bit, and set engine/exhaust mics to peak with plenty of headroom, just in case.
 
Alex H. said:
Check levels before heading out by having the engine rev a bit, and set engine/exhaust mics to peak with plenty of headroom, just in case.
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I did check the levels on the meters, both were bouncing not clipping.

But.. as I my norm I record mic 1 into channel 1 and 2 at different levels.. this is excellent for vox pops at work.. but a total user error when using two mics :(

I should have had cans on and have some one tap each mic befroe doing the rev test.

S
 
Im going back.

I think I keep the Sure mics in place (engine and exhaust) and I might put my rode video mic near the gear stick for a few more clunks

S
 
Absolutely. As I’ve stated before, the best results come from a blend of mic perspectives.

What I really meant was that the subtle moves of the driver and thier reaction to gforces are lifted by synched audio

More that specifically mentioning the quality of the audio.
 
morgan_moore said:
I did check the levels on the meters, both were bouncing not clipping.

But.. as I my norm I record mic 1 into channel 1 and 2 at different levels.. this is excellent for vox pops at work.. but a total user error when using two mics :(

I should have had cans on and have some one tap each mic befroe doing the rev test.

S
Click to expand...
For extreme type recordings, it is important to listen to the signal. While the meters might be showing normal levels for the recording levels, the input might be overloading the preamps resulting in an overmodulated sounding recording. That is where the dynamic mics come into play as they have a much lower threshold to clip the preamps.
 
morgan_moore said:
can you elaborate on this!
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The RØDE M5 has a max SPL handling of 140dB.

The SM57 has a max SPL handling of 150dB. (It’s actually noted to have max SPL of 150-190dB depending on frequency.)

That’s a pretty notable difference.

Dynamic mics also have a lower output signal, being passive.

morgan_moore said:
I did check the levels on the meters, both were bouncing not clipping.

But.. as I my norm I record mic 1 into channel 1 and 2 at different levels.. this is excellent for vox pops at work.. but a total user error when using two mics :(

I should have had cans on and have some one tap each mic befroe doing the rev test.

S
Click to expand...

Meters only tell you that something is there. They don’t tell you what’s there. Kind of like preparing a meal: if you aren’t tasting, you aren’t cooking. Always check with headphones: not just having someone tap on the mics, but listening all the way through a full level check.

morgan_moore said:
Im going back.

I think I keep the Sure mics in place (engine and exhaust) and I might put my rode video mic near the gear stick for a few more clunks
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Now you’re starting to think in layers of detail. I’m not sure how much you’ll actually get out of that VideoMic placement, but there’s only one way to find out. Still, don’t forget to place a mic (or better, a stereo pair) at that main camera perspective you showed earlier, to record the general interior of the car.

morgan_moore said:
What I really meant was that the subtle moves of the driver and thier reaction to gforces are lifted by synched audio

More that specifically mentioning the quality of the audio.
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Yes, but it was worth noting that the sound in the clip you provided was extremely overmodulated.
 
on the monitoring you are both correct!

with the actual noise (of the running car) time needs to be taken to test and then listen back as playback, I can monitor.. when the thing is revving.

care=results.

crew = results.

Im juggling a lot but that is only my fault.
 
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