When the price of the C300 MkII dropped they also cut the C100 (both MkI and MkII) price by $500.-. I noticed last year's Black Friday discount (MkI only) was $700.- plus an original extra battery and at that price both B&H and Adorama sold out of the non-DPAF version. Which indicates that there is a market for the camera. If they repeat that offer this fall I have no doubt they will sell out again. But then what? Is that the end of the line for the C100 or is there any kind of expansion/extension possible?
C100: Quo Vadis, C100
- Thread starter Networker
- Start date
"Double the price" ladder -
$3,500 (C100 MKII/III)
$7,000 (C200)
$13,000 (C300 MKIII)
25,000 (C700 MKII)
I think this is how it will look in 2018 with an affordable/stripped down version of C200 as C100 MKIII (only XF-AVC codec to SD cards) and C700 MKII with an internal Raw Light.
Or something like that.
$3,500 (C100 MKII/III)
$7,000 (C200)
$13,000 (C300 MKIII)
25,000 (C700 MKII)
I think this is how it will look in 2018 with an affordable/stripped down version of C200 as C100 MKIII (only XF-AVC codec to SD cards) and C700 MKII with an internal Raw Light.
Or something like that.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
What leads you to conclude that Canon will reduce the starting price of the C300 MKIII $3,000.00 from where the C300 MKII was when it was intro'd? Poor sales record? I hope they do, although even at $13k, I would still be tempted by the Varicam LT, which I feel is a more professional camera. But when you accessorize it out, even really cheaply, $22k to $24k whereas a fully outfitted C300 MKIII (Say 4 hours of CFast cards and some nice V mounts or Gold Mounts and a charger), will be way less than that.
A hunch based on the general downward price trends on 4K cameras over the years and various plateaus reached by the market. C300 MKIII will probably be a "best of" combination of C200 and C300 MKII and a $3,000 premium over C300 MKII seems reasonable. As you said, going up in price pits it against Varicam LT.
As to the market plateaus, it looks like having 4K Compressed Raw is one of them. The marginal benefit of going to 5K-8K seems very narrow. The only way Canon might justify a $16,000 price tag on C300 MKIII is to put the full 11.5 MPX C700 sensor into it. The problem is that will destroy C700 sales, forcing urgent model upgrades there.
Or maybe they'll trash C700 as a "bridge too far" and release C500 MKII, which will be nearly identical in appearance to C700 but selling in the low $20,000 with its uncompressed internal Raw to the SSD's or CFX cards. That's where Canon bread and butter is anyway. The high end is more suited to ARRI, Sony and Panasonic.
At least, that's where I'd recommend they go.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I've had a C300 for many years and I have an LT demo unit sitting in the house right now. It is definitely a much better camera(as in functional), but it's still missing a lot. Some things/oversights can be fixed by software/firmware and other things are hardware and 'it is what it is'. That being said, unless I get a phone call like I did about 10.5 years ago asking me to buy my first Vari, because of a long term deal, I won't be buying it. As great as the first two were, Panasonic dropped the ball just enough on some of the details of the new ones, to make them really annoying to use.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Do you find the buried audio controls to be the most annoying? Having to use the remote panel to adjust everything? Or is the reboot times?
Run&Gun
Veteran
I do not like the "menu audio controls". I have to deal with it on my F55 as well, but at least the 55 has physical switches for line/mic and +48. And the "audio menu" is somewhat confusing since there are four chs., too The remote panel is actually one of the best things about the camera, but it's just in a very bad spot. Once you play with it a bit, you can make some adjustments very quickly-I even like the WB set-up, but Panasonic still needs to do some tweaking. Like why can I not set TC to be IN or OUT in the quick TC menu available on the panel. You actually have to go menu diving. Simple fix, but one of the small things that has so far been overlooked that makes it so much 'less friendly' to use. Or they could have just made it a physical switch like on the 55. Rebooting for frame rates over 60 is a PITA, I do not have to do that on my F55. I'm guessing it's because you have to change codecs(over 60fps, internal recording has to be IntraLT). I also do not like having to shoot in 'cropped sensor mode' for higher than 60fps slow-mo, either. In the latest FW, they did make it so you do not have to re-boot until you finish making all your changes(that would require a re-boot) and it's a re-boot from the menu instead of having to flip the actual power switch. I won't get into the swappable mounts, unless you want, because I've beaten that horse to death on other threads. Panasonic was SO close with the LT...
My "short list" of what I would have like to have seen:
1) Slightly longer body that would have accommodated the control panel on the side and physical dedicated audio controls for input & monitoring and TWO EP2 slots.
2) Slot-in wireless ability like the 2700 VariCam. This was a game changer in my world.
3) Better swappable lens mount system. No Tools Needed!
4) Global Shutter
5) Ability to assign any menu items/functions to the 6 user assignable 'soft buttons' on the control panel. It is VERY limited and almost useless right now, but could easily be fixed via FW.
#5 is the only one that they can actually do anything about without releasing a new camera body. Well, possibly the mount, but I doubt that, either.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Good to hear Run&Gun, thanks for the feedback. I have only played with the LT at Abel Cine, I've never done a shoot with it. From Charles' work with it and few other projects I have seen, I really like the pictures from this camera, it can create really breathtaking imagery. I may have a project coming up where may we rent one for a long period so I am gathering intel from people who use it.
Run&Gun
Veteran
It's kind of funny, I just took it out to shoot with it yesterday(just in the backyard). I don't really have any questions about it being able to produce great images, I've been evaluating how it would be to actually USE it. It's like the 'ole saying, "The devil's in the details".