squig
Veteran
Just hand holding it from experience I think your numbers are pretty good in relation to the other cameras you've tested.
Quick review of A7S vs GH4
- Thread starter jcs
- Start date
Just hand holding it from experience I think your numbers are pretty good in relation to the other cameras you've tested.
cyork
Well-known member
I'm still mystified as to why 80% of these review outfits can't nail a grade. Slog2.....it's not. that. hard to grade but they sure make it seem that way. I mean...look at that grade. It just looks weird. I'd NEVER stop there. The skin tones could easily have been matched the C100. Oh well....I guess they took the time to do it so that has to count for something but I wonder how many people are holding off from purchase based on all of these "interesting" results. Hate being so critical but I just can't hold my tongue on this one.
cyork
Well-known member
"Trouble With The Curve" a film by Clint Eastwood about grading LOG footage.
I'm not saying I'm doing anything "right" but all I can say is that I've seen very few results that make the case for buying the camera because people are struggling with Slog2. Which is partly why I've been suggesting people try Standard or Neutral. Hate to say it but the end Standard profile image may be nicer than what some of the attempts to grade slog2 have been. I don't know....just flapping my lips here.
I'm not saying I'm doing anything "right" but all I can say is that I've seen very few results that make the case for buying the camera because people are struggling with Slog2. Which is partly why I've been suggesting people try Standard or Neutral. Hate to say it but the end Standard profile image may be nicer than what some of the attempts to grade slog2 have been. I don't know....just flapping my lips here.
haha I'd agree with that - i mean most of the stills you've posted have been beautiful in my opinion, whatever profile or however they were processed. if these reviews had footage looking like that in them, then i think people would be thinking slightly differently instead of just saying "oh because it's 8 bit you can't deal with slog!"
it just saddens me when people don't actually attempt to figure out what they are doing/working with and then blast that out to the internet as fact
it just saddens me when people don't actually attempt to figure out what they are doing/working with and then blast that out to the internet as fact
Totally agree. I don't understand it either. It's not rocket science. I have the impression that no one uses scopes when they grade or even knows how to read them. Equalizing blacks and whites is the very first thing you do. Don't even need to look at the screen. Just basic. If these testing people did only this, there grading would improve exponentially.
cyork
Well-known member
Or maybe even embrace really awesome plugins that are meant to get you to what you saw in your head without as much fuss as the risk of not being able to say you graded with 5 nodes in Resolve. It's no less "pro" to save yourself time. Time is money. If plugins are complicating file exchanges between houses, then fine, but how often is that scenario the case with the people we're probably talking about? This was a terrible shot. Overexposed, warm....pedestrian? But hey, click, movie some sliders, adjust the 3 way a bit and in no time. Bam. Solved. It's back to something I could live with.
From washed out, to somewhat photographic. Pretty honest to the scene.
Horrible
Not so horrible
So, within the boundaries of preference and taste, this shot could be a lot of things but likely a lot less easy to fix by hand. Learning to grade is fun. So is getting stuff done and having it look. Awesome. Sorry, rant over. I'll be good now. Those guys at Onyx were entertaining and they took the time to compare, so again, kudos to them for that. It's more of an overall gripe knowing that so much more justice can be done to the A7s' image.
Last edited:
Luke Bacich
Active member
This result and your comments were really interesting cyork. I'm totally new to grading and would appreciate any tips on how you use plugins. Which plugins are you using to achieve this? Thanks
cyork
Well-known member
Filmconvert 2 is fantastic. Impulz and Osiris are also amazing, the prior being far more expansive. Like I said, practice your grading but in the meantime, why torture yourself? Heck, people spend years learning to color correct and still can't do as good of a job as a click of a button in one of these suites. They're just tools and good ones at that. Try them out!
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Anthony, no camera here yet, but as far as I could see until today, this camera has some trouble to render reds.
Not a post issue but acquisition. As same as GH4 with that yellowish/orange skin tones.
vincent thomas
Well-known member
I don't think if you have a very good eye, if your original footage was well exposed and have a decent understanding about photography and grading, all of these plugins are needed. And i will even say they could be dangerous and not help to progress.
Just my 2 cents
--
________________________________________________________________
Vincent Thomas
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/vincentthomas
http://www.stranger-than-paradise.book.fr/
Just my 2 cents
--
________________________________________________________________
Vincent Thomas
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/vincentthomas
http://www.stranger-than-paradise.book.fr/
NeedCreative
Well-known member
That's all I do. Filmconvert, colorista, a touch of color board or vignette for focus - done. I do it by scopes and by eye. FilmConvert gets me 80% of the way there. Great program. People think I hired a colorist and I didn't on most jobs. (The dedicated colorist will always do better, but I do pretty good.)
NeedCreative
Well-known member
No, I can do it by eye, but the plugins make it a lot faster. Time is money...
NeedCreative
Well-known member
I love both cameras for different reasons, but yeah, that 2nd "glamour" test definitely showed the strengths of the A7s. There is simply better highlight rolloff (it's very good) and dynamic range. If only he matched the WB.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
...
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
After humming an hawing over GH4 and A7s for months I finally clued in that these cameas may look like competitors they both do things the other can't and its a matter of finding out what works best for the specific work you do. I don't think one is a replacement for the other. I ended up going with a GH4 as it fits my work but might still buy an A7s if I find myself working towards its strengths. When the Shogun comes out it will be a fine recorder for either or both cameras if the work warrants. The quality of footage per $$ of production budget on camera is amazing and Its great having more money to put towards lighting and locations.
cyork
Well-known member
These plugins are performing multi node tasks that are time consuming and require a ton of experience to nail. They don't have anything to do with lighting or composition which are separate components to what goes into making a good film. We're talking grading here and these LUTs are meant to save time and give you great results. Doesn't matter if you're an amatuer or a "pro", they're just tools.
vincent thomas
Well-known member
I agree with you totally. But some people will use these tools without understanding what is "behind" the buttons and have no experience in darkroom photography, digital or not...
Picture and Color
Member
Why does it matter? Like cyork says, they are just tools. Do you have to understand and have experience in film and darkrooms to be effective at digital? Seems like it's a 'nice to know' rather than a 'must know' with the availability of easy to use tools. Of course, I would still love to learn how to achieve these looks by hand via Resolve...
For those of you who have the Metabones Speedbooster for the FS700... have you tested or would you be satisfied using it in crop mode on the A7S? I've seen the quick philip bloom test. Looks good and you reduce the rolling shutter. Seems to be the best of both worlds. Sharper more stable S35 image, but you gain a stop of light and get near full frame FOV.
You can speed boost the GH4 but I don't believe the EF adapter is out yet and you are still only at S35 FOV. So perhaps a plus for the A7S.
Last edited: