Thomas Smet
Veteran
Virus? Really? That seems like a bit of a stretch.
ProRes RAW
- Thread starter dpc
- Start date
Virus? Really? That seems like a bit of a stretch.
High1ander
Well-known member
There are less harmful viruses that don't force you to reboot your computer because you "saw them in finder/explorer". I also said I think Windows is stupid for letting it get completely bogged down by a simple file in its browser (the problem doesn't happen if I reach the file and manage it thru PP's own browser, cause that won't trigger it to want to "thumbnail/cache" it). Basically it tries to "thumbnail/preview" the file, but it can't in an efficient manner (even with 64GB RAM) since it will try to send that HUGE 100+ GB file into the RAM, and since it can't send all that to my RAM it will start sending it to the page file... I know that the file isn't a virus, but the reality is that it in all practicality shuts down the computer for anything useful. If I let it cache for 3-4 hours (which I've done once or twice just to check what happens) then that is just temporary so next time you start the computer it will need to do the same thing again.
I used OpenEXR a long time ago and thought it was great when doing 3D renders...
I haven't dealt with RED Raw for a long time, but I remember it working on both Mac and PC with no "limiting" and that is the thing I feel with Apple/Mac (they won't share their secret sauce cause they want it to feel "smoother" on Mac), I don't dispute their "right" to do as they do, or that it is bad business on their part, the thing is just that "I" don't buy them as the end-all-be-all solution (at least not from a economical standpoint from my business perspective). I won't lose clients because I don't use Apple, I won't work faster because I have Apple, so why should I pay a "premium price" that I feel is 30% more expensive and lacks upgrade paths, etc. and force me into a corner. I mean as of now, if PC's turned to crap I could always migrate to Apple smoothly, can I do the same if I'm on Apple and I want to move? My "feeling" is nope nope nope. - "You can check-out any time you like. But you can never leave!"
Don't get me wrong either, "if" ProRes RAW works smoothly on PC I will use it, I just don't "expect" Apple to help Microsoft implement it perfectly as to it being so super fast as it is supposed to be on Macs. I just hope that companies that make recorders don't go "Oh, well, we have ProRes RAW now, lets not bother with CDNG..."
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Red doesn't get any complaints in large part because Red made integrating Redcode relatively easy by providing and SDK that took care of the heavy lifting, and at the same time ensured a smooth workflow and consistent results. Apple has been sabotaging ProRes on other platforms rather than facilitating it.
Look at OpenCL. That's pretty common all over nowadays, and rather than harming Apple and its customers, it's helped... because Apple let the language become a standard that it doesn't control.
I don’t agree with your point about RED making it easy to integrate via their SDK. Don’t they encrypt the R3D files to keep third part licensees from doing things like leveraging the GPU for decoding R3Ds? This forces customers to either build massive workstations or buy an expensive RED Rocket card to get reasonable playback of their footage.
I can’t speak for others but the reason I don’t complain about R3D is I don’t care what they do. With the exception of an occasional rental I don’t use their products. I don’t have the energy to be emotionally invested in the products I use let alone the myriad cameras, NLEs, etc that I don’t own.
I don’t think Apple is doing anything wrong here. They’ve invested a lot of money to create something with great promise and as a hardware company they’re giving their platform preferential treatment. That isn’t villainy. It’s just good business.
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+1 for that. Both programs work well for me. We have both Mac and PC systems. My wife loves her iMac. I run MacDrive 10 on the PC's. Much easier to deal with Mac format file offloads on a PC than the other way round. Ever try to offload and manage media files from an iPad or iPhone in the Apple universe? Pretty much forced to use iCloud and iTunes for everyday file transfer tasks. No such issues dealing with Mac or iOS file offloads on a PC.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
I may be too negative here but I suspect ProRes RAW is simply 12 bit black and white ProRes with a bit of extra metadata.
I may be too negative here but I suspect ProRes RAW is simply 12 bit black and white ProRes with a bit of extra metadata.
:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:
I may be too negative here but I suspect ProRes RAW is simply 12 bit black and white ProRes with a bit of extra metadata.
To my knowledge all RAW formats are monochrome so that shouldn’t be a surprise. As for it being 12 bit, Alexa owners have been thrilling producers with 12 bit log encoded ProRes 4444 for years so I doubt that will be a problem either.
Much of the investment I was referencing involved integrating FCP with the operating system and computer hardware. Apple apparently spent quite a bit of time optimizing ProRes RAW for MacOS and specifically for the current generation of AMD GPUs in Macs. We’ll find out this week how good of job they’ve done.
Yes, you do seem a bit negative.
badwolfmogli
New member
You can disable thumbnail generation on the windows explorer preferences and the problem is over...
Cary Knoop
Veteran
What is there to optimize in the CODEC?
Unless Apple broke the all-intra for RAW ProRes RAW must present an array of 8,294,400 12 bit values for each 4K frame that has to be debayered.
From the ProRes RAW white paper.
“Final Cut Pro includes a streamlined and GPU-optimized demosaicing algorithm designed to meet the performance demands of real-time, multistream video editing.”
https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_RAW_White_Paper.pdf
nyvz
Veteran
I may be too negative here but I suspect ProRes RAW is simply 12 bit black and white ProRes with a bit of extra metadata.
Sure hope not since quantizing bayer filtered data as though it's a monochrome image is a recipe for disaster. Might be more like prores 2:2:0
Cary Knoop
Veteran
The metadata would obviously describe the sensor pattern and since that would apply to all frames it would not have to be repeated for each frame.Sure hope not since quantizing bayer filtered data as though it's a monochrome image is a recipe for disaster. Might be more like prores 2:2:0
Not even close.
First off, the Red SDK leverages the GPU.
Second, I can get buttery smooth playback with Redcode on my ultrabook in Lightworks and Scratch, and both are blazing fast at transcodes and renders. Resolve's rendering isn't as fast, and it does require the egpu for full resolution de-Bayer on my little box.
That's with 8K Redcode.
combatentropy
Veteran
What would make sense is to separate the RAW image into three separate images: red, green, and blue. Then you compress each one individually.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
IIRC, what other compressed RAW codecs do is to divide it into a four-channel image with half-vertical and half-horizontal resolution, then apply the standard compression to that four-channel image. So recording 4k prores raw is probably something very similar to recording 2k ProRes 4444, at least in terms of encoding (for decoding you need to add a fast demosaic algorithm for playback and a slower but better one for rendering).
Cary Knoop
Veteran
I am sure they do but the demosaic operation comes after the decoding, it's still an array of 8,294,400 12 bit values for each 4K frame that needs to be processed, ProRes RAW or not.
High1ander
Well-known member
I have already said that in previous posts that it is an option, but doing so also turn off thumbnails for other files. I don't want to turn off thumbnails for only .mov-files either. But whatever, I got workarounds and I know what the issue is so not to hard to deal with. I just don't want to deal with crap like 10 years ago when you shoot something, or a client give you something that it needs to be transcoded, converted, etc... Of course RAW won't go straight into Maya, but I feel transcoding was a bastard child that came from the limitations of bandwith/computer power of cameras, something that doesn't exist at the same level now.
TheTrickster
Well-known member
Downloaded some sample ProResRAW footage from FinalCutPro.es, which appears to be from a EVA1 via a Inferno.
I am missing something, was expecting to see some more advanced controls with FCPX for the clip, WB, Tint etc etc... At least provide some kelvin adjustment??
I am missing something, was expecting to see some more advanced controls with FCPX for the clip, WB, Tint etc etc... At least provide some kelvin adjustment??
