C200: Prores RAW Format for C200 - The Missing Link ?

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yoclay

Veteran
Prores RAW Format for C200 ?

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/06/prores-raw-is-here/

Personally, I hope this is the missing link for the C200.
Something between their CRL and MP4, either externally or even internally.
Would finally make sense.

Right now it appears only the following cameras are supported :

Canon C300 Mark II
Canon C500
Sony FS700
Sony FS5
Sony FS7/FS7 II
Panasonic Varicam LT
Panasonic EVA1

If Canon doesn't introduce it for the C200, they will definitely be handing another bullet to their most direct competition for this camera - the Panasonic EVA1.
This should definitely be on everyone's wish list (request it !).
 
These cameras are only supported because they can output raw externally. The C200 can't output raw externally. Additionally, this new codec only works in the latest version of FCPX, which isn't due out until Monday.

The C200 will never work with this codec natively; however, transcoding your C200 raw footage into Prores RAW might be a good option for editing.

This certainly isn't another bullet for the camera as all of the competition that use it require an external encoder.
 
It may be interesting to see how Prores RAW compares to cDNG, though none of my clients have request RAW for any shoot yet.
 
This is actually bad news for the Canon C200 since the Panasonic EVA1 just announced raw output support.
 
You can't win either way...one camera has great potential for internal RAW recording but has some wack format, and the other has powerful CinemaDNG and PR RAW support but you have to hang a brick off your rig.
 
Raw raw raw...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOuDjdN2csw
What top camera produces industry leading color and almost everyone uses the ProRes recording option?
Do you really need RAW or better color science?
Canon is close- push for better color science and improved color technology (e.g. built in color meter / sensor(s), solutions that don't have problems with white balance).
I've discovered and fixed interesting elements of the C300 II color science (including the blues turning purple problem) as well as its relationship to Alexa color. Will post results soon.
 
I am excited to try it out on the C300 II, although its RAW output is only 10bit. I tried out CDNG but it isn't supported by FCPX and the complete lack of compression seems like a bit of waste. ProRes HQ isn't better than the internal recording. The new ProRes RAW might actually be a viable way of working with the RAW output from the C300 II for product shots and green screen work.
 
Have you ever worked with a 7" Atomos recorder, handheld, with two of the big Sony NPs hanging off the back to power it? I have. Pass, makes the svelte and lithe EVA 1 into a heavy bulky, boat anchor. Fine for tripod but for handheld or even shoulder mount? Snag points, weight, bulk, battery hungry. Why can't Atomos make a 4K Inferno with a 5" higher resolution Blade-type screen? 7" recorders are too large and heavy.
 
10 bit raw is probably a log format like Cineon. if it is, then it is equivalent to 12 bit linear raw performance for DR.
I recently learned that Slimraw 10 bit log compressed lossless format follows a Cineon log curve. Works like a charm in Resolve color managed work flow. h
Experimental sample converting Slimraw log to REC 709 2.4 Gamma with Cineon work flow:
41105512842_abe862152b_o.png


41105513522_0725e3d02d_o.jpg


o
 
puredrifting said:
Have you ever worked with a 7" Atomos recorder, handheld, with two of the big Sony NPs hanging off the back to power it? I have. Pass, makes the svelte and lithe EVA 1 into a heavy bulky, boat anchor. Fine for tripod but for handheld or even shoulder mount? Snag points, weight, bulk, battery hungry. Why can't Atomos make a 4K Inferno with a 5" higher resolution Blade-type screen? 7" recorders are too large and heavy.
Click to expand...

I have been telling Jeremy Young to make a smaller version for years. He doesn't want to go there, don't know why. Also up to this point, the best you could get out of Atomos for Prores was 422HQ, regardless of resolution and even 60fps was difficult on most of the recorders except the latest generation. A point in their favor - the reliability of the media and the ability to record without hiccups has always been rock solid.

Because of the size issue, I bought a Pix-E5 5" a long time ago. Perfect monitor/recorder in so many ways, but doesn't have dual 6g SDI, only single. They also take smaller half size batteries with the same output as those big NP's and have a locking DTap connection if needed as well. I suspect it won't be long before they support Prores RAW as they even support 4444XQ with H264 proxies. Interestingly, I know several camera rental houses that bought them as well for their Alexa setups and they go out all the time. Records the metadata around the frame of the image, so easy to see and has punch in focus check anywhere in the frame. Seems like a good compromise.
 
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yoclay said:
Because of the size issue, I bought a Pix-E5 5" a long time ago. Perfect monitor/recorder in so many ways, but doesn't have dual 6g SDI, only single. They also take smaller half size batteries with the same output as those big NP's and have a locking DTap connection if needed as well. I suspect it won't be long before they support Prores RAW as they even support 4444XQ with H264 proxies. Interestingly, I know several camera rental houses that bought them as well for their Alexa setups and they go out all the time. Records the metadata around the frame of the image, so easy to see and has punch in focus check anywhere in the frame. Seems like a good compromise.
Click to expand...

I totally agree about the E5... nearly perfect - in so many ways and I use mine on nearly all shoots - even if just for a monitor and not a recorder. Built to last. Keeping my fingers crossed the Prores Raw will be a FW update soon. And may be splitting hairs...but it takes an adapter cable to power it via DTap.
 
yoclay said:
Because of the size issue, I bought a Pix-E5 5" a long time ago. Perfect monitor/recorder in so many ways, but doesn't have dual 6g SDI, only single. They also take smaller half size batteries with the same output as those big NP's and have a locking DTap connection if needed as well. I suspect it won't be long before they support Prores RAW as they even support 4444XQ with H264 proxies.
Click to expand...
Problem is that in order to record ProRes RAW, the recorder needs to be able to read the raw output of the camera. As far as I know, the Pix-E doesn't support any raw formats as of now.
Had they been able to do that, they would have been perfect. Let's hope for an update or a mkII version!
 
Sound Devices stopped actively supporting the Pix-e awhile ago. No RAW. No PIP. In some ways, it was a great design, but they gave up on it for whatever reason.
 
A lot of people have said many good things about the PIX-Es, but I think they didn't do enough to sway the competition, especially with non-competitive pricing while the Atomos' kept dropping in price and the BM VA existed.

When you have a 7" BM VA selling for $900 (at one point $600) and a 7" Shogun Flame for $1000 (sometimes $900) and a 5" SD selling for $1500 (HDMI-only is $1300), and all of them practically do the same thing (besides the noteworthy RAW on the Flame), it's a tough business no matter how tough the build-quality of the latter is. [And the 7" SD version is $1700.]
 
The build quality, viewing options, recording media, and general quality of the Pix-E's certainly warranted the price differential over the Atomos products. Unfortunately, as recording devices the Atomos products are now more fully featured. I was really annoyed that Sound Devices gave up on the recorders since it was such a great device.

Interestingly, after years of not updating the news section of the VideoDevices web page, Sound Devices has a press release stating they will be attending NAB 2018. Maybe there will be an update.
 
Personally, I thought the media of the VD was the worst part when the other two recorded on SDXC cards or SSDs. I once used the Atomos' a lot and having 480GB SSDs for $100-$200 seems like a better deal than a 240GB SpeedDrive for $200+.
 
puredrifting said:
Have you ever worked with a 7" Atomos recorder, handheld, with two of the big Sony NPs hanging off the back to power it? I have. Pass, makes the svelte and lithe EVA 1 into a heavy bulky, boat anchor. Fine for tripod but for handheld or even shoulder mount? Snag points, weight, bulk, battery hungry. Why can't Atomos make a 4K Inferno with a 5" higher resolution Blade-type screen? 7" recorders are too large and heavy.
Click to expand...

Same here. Atomos heard you. They announced the 5" 4K/60p Ninja V.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/10/atomos-brings-5-monitor-back-ninja-v/

Enjoy
 
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