F3: Prores 4444 13 bit from F3 to SD Pix recoder now!

So does this mean we could pull 4.4.4 material off of the F3 without the paid version of the SLOG update?
Also, does this mean aquisition over a single SDI or is double SDI required?
 
I think you need rgb paid update, because free update lets yu have slog,but not rgb output. Pix records via single 3g sdi cable, says so in the manual, just read it. Will go to the office in one hour and test everything. As this happens via single cable, it's not possible to get 1080 60p,but i for free, i don't mind prores 4444 :)
 
Tomas Riuka said:
I think you need rgb paid update, because free update lets yu have slog,but not rgb output. Pix records via single 3g sdi cable, says so in the manual, just read it. Will go to the office in one hour and test everything. As this happens via single cable, it's not possible to get 1080 60p,but i for free, i don't mind prores 4444 :)
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But doesn't 3G-SDI offer the same throughput as dual-link? Why wouldn't 60p output be possible if that's the case?
 
AFAIK, F3 does 60p only through dual link output.

Just tested, setting f3 to 3g rgb444 output works like a charm with pix240 via single cable. Pix detects input signal and shows it's 10 bit rgb. Did a quick test, didn't notice any substancial visible changes recording prores hq 422 or 4444, i guess that would come up when keying :)
 
So over one BNC you got 4:4:4 or did you get 4:2:2 padded to 4:4:4? In other words is it a true 4:4:4 resolution?
 
Tomas Riuka said:
AFAIK, F3 does 60p only through dual link output.
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That's a mongrel, I wonder if it's worth looking into dual-link-to-3G-SDI converters?

Tomas Riuka said:
Just tested, setting f3 to 3g rgb444 output works like a charm with pix240 via single cable. Pix detects input signal and shows it's 10 bit rgb. Did a quick test, didn't notice any substancial visible changes recording prores hq 422 or 4444, i guess that would come up when keying :)
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Well (from what I remember of Alastair Chapman's explanation of it) the F3's sensor doesn't have enough photosites to capture 'true' 4:4:4 colour resolution (it's more like half-way between 4:2:2 and true 4:4:4), so although there should be an improvement - it won't be quite as large as it would be with a 'true' 4:4:4 sensor.
 
well, i can't measure it for sure :D but according to sony you can output RGB 4:4:4 1080 23.98/ 25/ 29.97PsF signal is available over an HD-SDI dual-link or 3G H-SDI output so if you have RGB (paid slog) update, you should be getting true RGB 444 via single 3G SDI output and record it with pix. As far as i remember, previously, setting camera to 3G 444 ouput, made Pix recorder go blank and don't see any image, now it works.
 
Tomas Riuka said:
well, i can't measure it for sure :D but according to sony you can output RGB 4:4:4 1080 23.98/ 25/ 29.97PsF signal is available over an HD-SDI dual-link or 3G H-SDI output so if you have RGB (paid slog) update, you should be getting true RGB 444 via single 3G SDI output and record it with pix. As far as i remember, previously, setting camera to 3G 444 ouput, made Pix recorder go blank and don't see any image, now it works.
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Great! So this just made the F3 4:4:4 option app. 3k cheaper (comparing to the previous cheapest option Gemini)?
 
Tomas Riuka said:
Grug, pix can't handle 1080p 60frames, i think they said it's impossible due to hardware.
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Yeah, I remember them mentioning that too - however I seem to remember their explanation being that because the recorders only had a single HD-SDI input, there was no way to physically send a 60p signal to the recorder.

Now that the SDI port has been upgraded to 3G-SDI there is actually now a way to feed the PIX a 60p signal - what remains to be seen is whether the internal processing can handle encoding a 1080p60 stream of video. Though given that standard 10-bit ProRes422 @ 60fps has a lower data rate than ProRes4444 @ 29.97fps I would have thought it possible.
 
Seems like, yes :) it's just Gemini does 444 uncompressed and 1080 60p. Imho 4444 prores is enough , cause if you need THAT much, it's always easier to take another camera like Alexa with raw recorder.

KINOKS said:
Great! So this just made the F3 4:4:4 option app. 3k cheaper (comparing to the previous cheapest option Gemini)?
Click to expand...
 
Tomas Riuka said:
Seems like, yes :) it's just Gemini does 444 uncompressed and 1080 60p. Imho 4444 prores is enough , cause if you need THAT much, it's always easier to take another camera like Alexa with raw recorder.
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Alexa heh, that's in a totally different price point!:) But this is great, pix is a lovely quality made recorder and it now offers 4:4:4! I wonder if other manufacturers will follow...
 
This is great news! Just downloaded the updater and will update my 240 later in the AM!

Guess I need a larger SSD now ;)

Ned
 
Something tells me that we just might have gotten a clue as to what the next firmware update might be doing...
 
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To get 444 at 1080/60p, one would need a pair of 3G links. It is too much data.

1.5G single link = 1080/60i 422 or 720/60p 422
1.5G dual link = 1080/60i 444 or 1080/60p 422
3G single link = 1080/60i 444 or 1080/60p 422 (same as above)
3G dual link = 1080/60p 444 or 1080/120p 422

It's all about how much data can fit down a pipe.

BTW, the PIX240 update is amazeballs. ;-)
 
I think the question is whether this means we can get 1080 60p at 422, considering the Pix240 is now a 3G device, not a single link 1.5 device.
 
WoW !!! amazing PIX240 news, so can I get ProRes 444 @25p trough single output SDI F3 (A port) ? really the best new year new!
 
Viddovation said:
I think the question is whether this means we can get 1080 60p at 422, considering the Pix240 is now a 3G device, not a single link 1.5 device.
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While that is a theoretical capability of a 3G transport stream, I do not believe the F3 or any other camera is set up to deliver this way and as such the PIX240 is not currently able to capture this. Should someone ever output such a signal I'm sure it is easy enough for Sound Devices to enable the capture of it.
 
I've just pinged SD to question whether existing qualified SSD's have been tested to support ProRes 4444 data rates. I have not yet had the time to update my Pix and test from my F3 (I have the Samsung 470 SSD, now discontinued).

Mitch, have you guys had the chance to test yet?

Ned
 
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