Post-Production workflow- Sound Forge?

Alpha Flying Monkey

Alpha Flying Monkey

Well-known member
I'm being asked to do post audio work on some of the video shoots I've recorded... The files would come to me from Final Cut Pro & I would import them into Sound Forge Pro 9. I would work on the dialog & send them back.

Does anyone have experience with these...
1) Do they work well together?
2) If not- is there a better (& affordable under $500) Windoze program?
3) If so- should I upgrade SFP9 to version 10?

Or- should I sell a kidney & buy a Mac/FCP setup?
 
buy an inexpensive Protools rig.
They have interfaces for a few hundred bux

Make sure its ProTools LE.
There are some good packages with decent plug -ins to start you off.

Of course if you want to import OMF's that Final Cut can export you need to buy
the DVtoolkit for 900-1200 bux extra.
Not something you might get right away but VERY good for down the road as an option.

Of course this is just a personal opinion.
Going this route will help you set up for future possibilties, from being able to
start a mix on your small system and take it to a large studio to finish it..

to working with external film/video houses with a better workflow.

Other software will get you to where you need to go of course but
there is something to be said for using the "standard".

Its also a good "buzz word" you can throw out to potential clients.
They dont know the difference but say "Protools" and they know the term.
Pathetic but true.
 
An OMF is an export feature (in this case with final cut pro) that
lets them export their timeline
and if you open it up in Protools (w/ the add on DV toolkit)
you can see the exact same timeline.

All the edit points are there, and the different tracks..etc
And when they export they can give you "Handles"
so you can pull out extra from the clips on the timeline...say 2 seconds before..and 2 seconds after.
With that you can have more control over cross fades and dialog editing.
 
First Sound Forge is only two track, or it was last I used it, and that is not enough to do post with. I agree with Ripple on a couple of levels. The first is that PT is the standard for film post so there are a lot of resources to help you, that won't be the case with SF. You can get an academic version of PT for around $150 and $100 or so should get you a decent MAudio interface that will work with it. At one point the Academic version came with DigiTranslator (don't know if that still holds) and that is what you actually need to use OMF's. It comes bundled in the DV toolkit but if all you need is OMF support you can get it separately for ~~$200 - check eBay.

I like SF and missed it when I went to the Mac. but I PT is a better choice. Two other good PC choices are Nuendo and SAW. But Nuendo is over $2K just for the software and I think SAW is pushing $1K, but it's been awhile so? Neither will have the film specific user base to the same extent as PT though.
 
I love Sound Forge and have used it for years. You should just checkout Version 10. The upgrade is like $139.00 or something.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/soundforge

It does support up to 32 channels of audio. What makes it great for me is I edit in Vegas most of the time (I have a Mac and FCS2) and the two play together nicely. Not only can I open audio from the timeline in Sound Forge, tweak it and bring it right back in, but all my cool audio plugins show-up in Vegas too. It's worth looking into.
 
ZazaCast said:
I love Sound Forge and have used it for years. You should just checkout Version 10. The upgrade is like $139.00 or something.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/soundforge

It does support up to 32 channels of audio. What makes it great for me is I edit in Vegas most of the time (I have a Mac and FCS2) and the two play together nicely. Not only can I open audio from the timeline in Sound Forge, tweak it and bring it right back in, but all my cool audio plugins show-up in Vegas too. It's worth looking into.
Click to expand...


Keep in mind that Sound Forge is designed to work with Vegas, much like Soundtrack Pro and Final Cut Pro. But ProTools is designed to work with most anything.

If you are working with audio exported from AVID or FCP, ProTools is the way to go.
 
Noiz2 said:
You can get an academic version of PT for around $150 and $100 or so should get you a decent MAudio interface that will work with it.
Click to expand...

Last I checked, the only version of PTLE that works with any non-Digidesign hardware is ProTools M-powered. This is the LE version designed to work with M-Audio hardware, and is even more limited than the regular LE. It will not work with DVToolKit.
 
Noiz2 said:
At one point the Academic version came with DigiTranslator (don't know if that still holds) and that is what you actually need to use OMF's. It comes bundled in the DV toolkit but if all you need is OMF support you can get it separately for ~~$200 - check eBay.
Click to expand...

If you can get digitranslator separate for $200...
Very sweet. (and well worth it!!)
 
C2V said:
Last I checked, the only version of PTLE that works with any non-Digidesign hardware is ProTools M-powered. This is the LE version designed to work with M-Audio hardware, and is even more limited than the regular LE. It will not work with DVToolKit.
Click to expand...

I haven't looked into this latley but a year or so ago the Academic version was an MPowered version with Digi Translator, and the track count extension and had TC. So while you can't use DV toolkit with it most of those features were included.

The M-Audio isn't really more limited than Le just not as expandable.

I have HD and Le, but not M-Powered.

OT If anyone wants to trade I have an M-Box2 and would do a straight hardware trade for the Micro. I don't need the I/O but would love to shrink the size of my traveling rig.

I would even consider the Mini but the Micro is what I'm really after. If interested contact off list.
scott@askinc.net
 
ZazaCast said:
It does support up to 32 channels of audio.
Click to expand...

32 channels, not tracks. You can't do post sound with out multiple tracks. As I said I like Sound Forge and if it had a Mac version I would have bought it. But I wouldn't edit sound tracks on it. If you do post sound you really need two kinds of editors. A two track (or multi channel) editor. For trimming down recordings etc., working the raw files. And a multi track editor where you put all those raw files to use. You can get by with the later but not the former. Trimming files etc is a bit clunky in apps like PT since you have to open a session etc. A two track (I should say "multi channel") app like SF is very good at this kind of work. But it's near useless at working on the over all sound track.
 
M-Audio
Pro Tools M-Powered 8.0
Product ID: 972081 / Mfg Part #: 9910-59813-00
Mac Win $149.00
 
Noiz2 said:
The M-Audio isn't really more limited than Le just not as expandable.
Click to expand...

I guess I consider "not expandable" as a limitation. Either way, the add-ons that you can get for LE make it worth the extra cost over M-Powered.

Noiz2 said:
I would even consider the Mini but the Micro is what I'm really after.
Click to expand...

I bought the Micro when PTLE 8 came out... or, should I say, when the Mac OS was finally compatible with PT8. It was a great way to get the new software without worrying about hardware. Gotta say, I love the little thing. Use my Digi002 in-studio and for live gigs, and start organizing/editing on the plane or in the hotel with the Micro.
 
I might mention that Steinberg's Nuendo is a multi-track DAW that is finding a lot of favour as a viable alternative to ProTools for film and video postproduction. Alas it exceeds the original poster's $500 budget limit by a signifigant amount but it is definitely a contender, especially when coupled with Wavelab for editing and mastering.
 
For a dialog edit, either go with ProTools or with Adobe Auditon. If this is indeed what you are doing.

Like the previous poster set, ProTools interop with FCP is difficuilt, even with OMF/AAF transfers,
specifically FCP does not send L/R panning data and others, you'll need to pay extra to be able to import. And Protools M-Powered may not be capable of doing it period, only LE and HD/HD/Accell.

While being the grand-daddy of all stereo editors (Cool Edit 2000) was purchased by Adobe and turned into a Windows only product called Audition (not to be confused with SoundBooth).
Adobe added better looping, punch-in and multi-track capabilities.

Your last and least favorable but the most co-operative option is SoundTrack Pro, which is a refactored version of eMagic Logic which apple bought at version 6 GOLD and deleted windows support.

Back on-topic. As a "sampler" SoundForge was my tool of choice for a stereo editor, but I would never-ever-ever use any of the built-in effects it ships with (Anti-Noise, compressors, eq) on a dialog edit. Ever. and the same click-in pencil edits can be done in both ProTools and Adobe Audition.

Working with protools gives you the benefit of then sending the dialog tracks for Final Mix. - The Idea is that you should not be sending your dialog edit work back to FCP, but rather send it to a multi-track mixer for final mix with SFX/PFX etc..
 
C2V said:
Last I checked, the only version of PTLE that works with any non-Digidesign hardware is ProTools M-powered. This is the LE version designed to work with M-Audio hardware, and is even more limited than the regular LE. It will not work with DVToolKit.
Click to expand...

100% Correct M-Powered does not play QT/DVToolKit.
 
Like the previous poster set, ProTools interop with FCP is difficuilt, even with OMF/AAF transfers,
specifically FCP does not send L/R panning data and others, you'll need to pay extra to be able to import. And Protools M-Powered may not be capable of doing it period, only LE and HD/HD/Accell.
Click to expand...

Whoever said that is just plain wrong. 90% of low budget projects that come in are in FCP. The issue you mention was with FCP in versions before 6, ie two versions ago. And it was a FCP problem not a PT problem. You will need to spend some extra to be able to deal with OMF's. There are only three versions of PT: Le, HD and M-Powered (Accell is an HD card).

While being the grand-daddy of all stereo editors (Cool Edit 2000) was purchased by Adobe and turned into a Windows only product called Audition (not to be confused with SoundBooth).
Adobe added better looping, punch-in and multi-track capabilities.
Click to expand...

Grandaddy? Lets mention maybe Sound Designer, or a host of others that were around long before cool edit, which I believe was always a Windows app.

Your last and least favorable but the most co-operative option is SoundTrack Pro, which is a refactored version of eMagic Logic which apple bought at version 6 GOLD and deleted windows support.
Click to expand...

Kind of. It started out as Sound Track, which was a stand alone two channel editor before Apple bought Logic. But it has been moving closer to Logic since the acquisition. I wouldn't put it as least favorable (at least not over the two track editors) but since it's a Mac only app and the OP is on Windows it's not even an option.

Back on-topic. As a "sampler" SoundForge was my tool of choice for a stereo editor, but I would never-ever-ever use any of the built-in effects it ships with (Anti-Noise, compressors, eq) on a dialog edit. Ever. and the same click-in pencil edits can be done in both ProTools and Adobe Audition.
Click to expand...

I also would never use it on dialog but much more because at only one track (multi channel) it's not suited to film editing at all.

Working with protools gives you the benefit of then sending the dialog tracks for Final Mix. - The Idea is that you should not be sending your dialog edit work back to FCP, but rather send it to a multi-track mixer for final mix with SFX/PFX etc..
Click to expand...

This is a very misleading statement. You can send tracks from anything to be mixed on a stage. PT would let you send a session to a mix stage (most of them anyway) but at $150/ hr for a bargain basement Mix stage I don't think this is where the OP is heading. Pretty much all films under say $60K for sound post are mixed and sent back to FCP as a stereo (or surround) track to laid back to the video. And BTW PFX are generally part of the dialog editors tracks. A dialog edit should end up living on 4-8 mono tracks in a multi track session along with a few tracks of PFX and Room tones.
 
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