Pmw F5 & F55

starcentral said:
I know I am certainly tearing out my hair with all the options on the table right now.
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I see you jumped on the Scarlet but are selling without use - so are you looking at the Sony option again?

And you're right - soooo many options at the moment. Who knows what'll happen next as it looks like cycles are 18 months (if we're lucky!) on cameras now.

Bring back Betacam SP - ruled the world for years! LOL
 
Derek Chingwell said:
I see you jumped on the Scarlet but are selling without use - so are you looking at the Sony option again?

And you're right - soooo many options at the moment. Who knows what'll happen next as it looks like cycles are 18 months (if we're lucky!) on cameras now.

Bring back Betacam SP - ruled the world for years! LOL
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yes back and forth back and forth... here's my latest look at things:

starcentral said:
I will repost my evaluation from earlier today in terms of how I'm looking at things for myself at least. (Excluding power, display, media):

FS700: $9k + $2k (HXS) + $5k (AXS) = $16k
F3: $14k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $14.5k nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes.
F5: $15k = 2k internal 10-bit 422
F5: $15k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $15.5k for nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes
F5: $20k = 2k internal 10-bit 422, 4k RAW via AXS (maybe some 2k RAW too?)
F55: $25k = 4k internal 10-bit 422.
F55: $30k = 4k RAW via AXS.
Scarlet: $10,150 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $10,650 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
EPIC: $21,200 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $21,700 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
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Why not an an Epic in there too? :)

It's interesting that with the F5/F55 route, components (such as monitor or EVF etc) still have to be purchased, so it's very similar (in terms of working out TCO) to running the maths on RED stuff.
 
Derek Chingwell said:
Why not an an Epic in there too? :)

It's interesting that with the F5/F55 route, components (such as monitor or EVF etc) still have to be purchased, so it's very similar (in terms of working out TCO) to running the maths on RED stuff.
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Ok added, but others might not care for same options I listed. I just think 1080p is important to have, even on RED and god knows I wouldn't fork over $11,000 for the Meizler module.

starcentral said:
I will repost my evaluation from earlier today in terms of how I'm looking at things for myself at least. (Excluding power, display, media):

FS700: $9k + $2k (HXS) + $5k (AXS) = $16k
F3: $14k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $14.5k nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes.
F5: $15k = 2k internal 10-bit 422
F5: $15k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $15.5k for nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes
F5: $20k = 2k internal 10-bit 422, 4k RAW via AXS (maybe some 2k RAW too?)
F55: $25k = 4k internal 10-bit 422.
F55: $30k = 4k RAW via AXS.
Scarlet: $10,150 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $10,650 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
EPIC: $21,200 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $21,700 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
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Derek Chingwell said:
Why not an an Epic in there too? :)

It's interesting that with the F5/F55 route, components (such as monitor or EVF etc) still have to be purchased, so it's very similar (in terms of working out TCO) to running the maths on RED stuff.
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Perhaps, but it's worth noting that if you have some basic accessories already (v-mount batteries, EVF/Monitor) you don't need to buy anything other than the bodies and SxS media with these two cameras.

But enough about prices I want some details on the post workflow for SR Lite and XAVC! I have a rumbling down in my gut that says it won't be quite as blissfully easy as drag and drop ProRes/DNxHD.
 
Grug said:
Perhaps, but it's worth noting that if you have some basic accessories already (v-mount batteries, EVF/Monitor) you don't need to buy anything other than the bodies and SxS media with these two cameras.

But enough about prices I want some details on the post workflow for SR Lite and XAVC! I have a rumbling down in my gut that says it won't be quite as blissfully easy as drag and drop ProRes/DNxHD.
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That's assuming Sony don't follow RED's lead and make proprietary connectors for the new items (EVF/Monitors etc) - that would be funny!

But I agree on the workflow - that's going to be the clincher in this next round... how easily it integrates into current pipelines and how simple in operation everything really is.

Time will tell!
 
These costings on the F5 / F55 really are air until we actually see real prices.

Just this however - F3 now selling in Japan for (converted rate) $12700.
 
starcentral said:
FS700: $9k + $2k (HXS) + $5k (AXS) = $16kF3: $14k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $14.5k nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes.
F5: $15k = 2k internal 10-bit 422
F5: $15k + $500 (Hyper Deck recorder) = $15.5k for nearly 2k uncompressed, Dnx or ProRes
F5: $20k = 2k internal 10-bit 422, 4k RAW via AXS (maybe some 2k RAW too?)
F55: $25k = 4k internal 10-bit 422.
F55: $30k = 4k RAW via AXS.
Scarlet: $10,150 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $10,650 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
EPIC: $21,200 + $500 (Hyper Deck) = $21,700 for 4k "internal" RAW and 1080p external.
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Nice breakdown! You should add a feature grid next to this list, with check marks in the columns representing each camera's features. Like this: http://tinyurl.com/by8kmhu
 
I know the F55 is at the top of the scale in your comparison, price-wise - but given the global shutter, F65 CFA, and simultaneous multi-codec/format recording....I personally think its worth it.

I think you're going to get better images, a better workflow, and better ergonomics with the F55 than anything else on the list. If these prices turn out to be accurate, I think it's well-positioned.
 
Best music to my ears has not been global shutter so much as it has been that awesome lowlight capability Sony is known for, along with various internal formats, RAW external, and the icing on the cake for me was even having a SD composite video out believe it or not!!!
 
I was thinking of an F5, but it's not that much more for an F55 and I'm slowly coming around to going straight to the F55.

Things I think are important:

1) Global shutter - no more jello, ever. Almost no other top camera does that. Not Red, not Alexa. I think Phantoms do, but that's a whole other price range.

2) Low light and low noise - These latest Sony cameras have extremely low noise and have redefined what the lowest usable range is. It's saved me a time or two.

3) Usable Internal codecs - 4.2.2, 50Mbps, 4k. You can make it right for TV, or make it right for movies. And yet get long record times.

4) Awesome color gamut - Have you seen the F65 clips?

5) Many F3 accessories will be transferable to the F55 - Definately my Opitek Prolock will work. That means my Nikon and PL lenses will all work. A 4 pin power XLR will most likely work. That will enable my batteries to work although I might need to rig a battery holder. Some of the media will work too. I know 4k will probably require the new SxS Pro + cards, but I know 2k is fine on SxS and SDHC cards. Most likely my TV Logic monitor will work.

I'm wondering if we'll need a new cheese plate on top? And something besides that cheap looking plastic handle?
 
I really don't see much point in buying an F5 if you already have an F3 with an external recorder, whereas an F55 is at an entirely different level. I hope that there is some customer loyalty benefit coming to those willing to make the upgrade.
 
Duke, One quick correction. I don't believe you can record 2K to standard SxS cards and certainly not SDHC. In fact, my understanding is that SxS cards are required for XDCAM 50 Mbps and the new Plus cards for everything else.

I otherwise completely agree with your assessment and from my hands-on today (see separate thread), you definitely can use all prior F3 accessories. 4 pin XLR power connector is on right-rear of camera. Your TV logic monitor will work through one of the SDI ports but not through the viewfinder port. And of course, the Optitek will work. Same lens mount system.

Ned

Ned
 
lasikdenver said:
I really don't see much point in buying an F5 if you already have an F3 with an external recorder, whereas an F55 is at an entirely different level. I hope that there is some customer loyalty benefit coming to those willing to make the upgrade.
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Well one nifty form factor without external cables, power requirements, or mounting hardware is a biggy. Also the SRmaster codec for shooting 2k 10-bit 422 is going to be a hit for people like me doing more "cinema" work where more demanding grading and post work is needed in quicker turn-around times.

Then there is 16-bit RAW power in either 2k or 4k as an option, whereas the F3 is limited to YCbCr in 10-bit.

F5 is killer, and at ISO 2000 it is ridiculous.
 
Duke M. said:
I'm wondering if we'll need a new cheese plate on top? And something besides that cheap looking plastic handle?
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Given the simple rectangular shape of this camera, I suspect we'll see some 3rd party "cages" that will slide on, and hard mount to the bottom of the camera, and provide a cheeseplate on the top for accessories, including element technica style top handles. I wouldn't be surprised if we see such a handle offered that includes the VF mount point.
 
Viddovation said:
Given the simple rectangular shape of this camera, I suspect we'll see some 3rd party "cages" that will slide on, and hard mount to the bottom of the camera, and provide a cheeseplate on the top for accessories, including element technica style top handles. I wouldn't be surprised if we see such a handle offered that includes the VF mount point.
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Solid Camera is all over this one for sure, same with Elements. Can't wait to see what they have.
 
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