Pmw F5 & F55

William_Robinette said:
I wish Sony wasn't Sony, and they had RAW onboard. Otherwise these cameras look nice.
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But here's the thing, it's modular so that you can do several things. One, you can fit the head into places where weight or size is a concern (mounting in cars, airplanes, small rooms backed into a corner. Two, if you can't afford to buy the RAW recorder now, you can still invest in the ecosystem, and rent the recorder as needed.

I think this is better than the alternative, of charging everyone for the RAW features, even if we don't need them - and having a smaller camera head when we require it.

I'm happy to have my cookie and glass of milk separately.
 
Kolor-Pikker said:
Before the BM camera everyone thought a camera like that was impossible too, and before the DSLR craze hit, everyone knew that cine digital cost no less than 100k to start. Also, the Earth was flat at one point in history.
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This is what's called Moore's Law, welcome to the World of Silicon. With this announcement (and assuming the prices are real) then other companies like Red have to leverage Moore's Law even more. It gets better from here.

The bubble is about to burst.
 
Barry_Green said:
Said that in the other thread, that I don't know if that's the way they're playing it or not, but it sure would make sense. Red's already committed to announcing pricing tomorrow, and my assumption was that Red was planning on announcing their pricing as a reaction to the Sony offerings. So Sony, if they want to play hardball, should just not release their pricing at all yet, and make Red go first... I don't know if that's how they'll play it or not, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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Doesn't RED have a built-in delay policy on everything they do? >=P Wouldn't be the fifth time they pushed something back if they had to.
 
I don't get it about the XAVC codec... It based on the 5.2 profile from the h264/mpeg4-avc.

Too bad beacause the final version of the h265 will be available in few months... half the bandwidth, same quality.
 
Can it be FS700 owners that invest in the raw recorder gets 14 stops DR? If the F5 and FS700 shares the same sensor then they must share the same DR when capturing raw right? Not to mention the same IQ. Another thing could be S-log2 on the F5 but that would only apply to baked in recordings.
 
Jaspion said:
I don't get it about the XAVC codec... It based on the 5.2 profile from the h264/mpeg4-avc.
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Jaspion said:
Too bad beacause the final version of the h265 will be available in few months... half the bandwidth, same quality.
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1. Because it's tested. It works. They have made a silicon chip already, tested it, gotten yield figures, and worked how much it will actually cost to build.

2. For editing, it has known, manageable CPU overheads. If h265 has higher requirements, then it might not be playable on as many older editing computers.

It takes a while to get a perfect piece of silicon that does what you want. For a more bleeding-edge approach, take REDCODE, where there were serious glitches and it would lock up with CODEC FAULT if you pointed it at certain combinations of highlights and detail. Seriously, there was a guy Leo Ticheli who would be able to kill it by pointing it at a certain tree with a certain lens. It's all sorted out now but for a time it was both hilarious and (as a guy who actually hit those CODEC FAULTs in production) slightly scary.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Viddovation said:
But here's the thing, it's modular so that you can do several things. One, you can fit the head into places where weight or size is a concern (mounting in cars, airplanes, small rooms backed into a corner. Two, if you can't afford to buy the RAW recorder now, you can still invest in the ecosystem, and rent the recorder as needed.

I think this is better than the alternative, of charging everyone for the RAW features, even if we don't need them - and having a smaller camera head when we require it.

I'm happy to have my cookie and glass of milk separately.
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Perhaps for some. I'm definitely not trying to start a battle here, but I feel that the modularity here isn't that small or modular, and that I would rather pay $2,500 for the ability to record some 1080p ProRes/DNxHD off camera with RAW built in then pay Sony what - over $3,000 I would guess (and I would guess a lot more) for the reverse. I mean, come on this is small if you want to talk about getting in tight places...

IMG_1782copy_zps4ec640a4.jpg


Like I said though, it is some good looking hardware. Can't wait to shoot with them - rental only. I would never buy one.
 
The actual F5 and F55 bodies are roughly the same size as the AF100, what's making them look massive are the modules on the back and the rods, etc.

You could run a battery belt or an Endura7s and a superspeed and still be about the same size as an Epic with battery grip or back battery plate with the same glass.
 
Something that not many if any have mentioned about Epic:

The 5K real-estate is still pretty alluring to me. It definitely has its own look. That's something to consider as a creative, not so much a tech-head no?
 
Kholi said:
The actual F5 and F55 bodies are roughly the same size as the AF100, what's making them look massive are the modules on the back and the rods, etc.

You could run a battery belt or an Endura7s and a superspeed and still be about the same size as an Epic with battery grip or back battery plate with the same glass.
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And I bet they won't sound like a hair dryer!
 
Guys I need to ask a serious question or I might end up with three cameras I can't afford:

Assuming the cost of the F55 with added ext. recorder was exactly the same cost as as F3 and a RED Scarlet camera - what do you see as pros or cons to owning ONLY the F55 versus owning both an F3 and RED Scarlet?

The predominant aspect of my work is on the cinema side, and cinematic productions/commercial projects. Color space is probably more important to me than resolution, but there are those jobs that may come my way where those with "RED" only need apply. For a feature film I would not shoot in anything less than 422 and prefer 4k or RAW over HD for it flexibility in post.

I still believe that RED products are geared to an entirely different market than the cams being brought out by Canon and now Sony, but I do agree there is some level of convergence we are reaching. Having said that, please share your thoughts I as I need to really help land a decision on all this.
 
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starcentral said:
Guys I need to ask a serious question or I might end up with three cameras I can't afford:

Assuming the cost of the F55 with added ext. recorder was exactly the same cost as as F3 and a RED Scarlet camera - what do you see as pros or cons to owning ONLY the F55 versus owning both an F3 and RED?
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=P Owning, insuring, outfitting, maintaining, porting, and storing two cameras when one potentially does everything necessary is kind of a major con to me.

That's just me though.
 
First, thanks for the well-wishes to AbelCine and our staff. Our NY office is closed until we (and NYC) can figure out how to get it opened and staffed. Our email is down but Chicago and LA are open and doing business.

Second, while you guys have hit on some of the great features of these new cameras, I fear you're missing some of the amazing innovations they include. Two formats can be recorded at once -- either one to the RAW recorder and one to the new SxS card or TWO DIFFERENT FORMATS TO THE INTERNAL CARDS SIMULTANEOUSLY. That's amazeballs. It means you have your editing proxy and master file at the same time without transcode. Or your master file along with a RAW archive copy for future use.

And look at the kitting. Three different finder options. An improved LCD EVF, an OLED EVF and a 7" LCD. The EVFs have L-R adjustment along with a dual arm for fore-aft positioning. And the OLED is tiny and higher in rez. And someone show me another 7" LCD panel which is full rez. HD 1920x1080. You can use that as a finder or an onboard monitor. I want it for every other camera as well!

One camera for 4K/2K/HD internal recording. RAW module snaps on like mounting a battery. New batteries are standard V-mount but more power in smaller package with greater # of run cycles. Or use your old bricks if you want. The basic camera nly uses 25w! Yes there's integrated shoulder pad available and a top handle for mounting the EVF, and by the time the camera is shipping Solid Camera, 3ality Technica, Wooden Camera, Shape and a number of others will have excellent accessories for the few things Sony may have missed (start searching boys).

Oh by the way, did you notice that there's a complet new set of affordable PL mount lenses? A few of us beat them up pretty badly on their first crack at them, but they came back listening to learn what needed to be improved.

F55 is the camera you'll all want to buy and F5 is the camera many of you can financially justify actually buying. But believe me you'll want them.
 
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