AC160 Please Critique my video. Need advice on best settings to shoot with uplighting.

P

pifemaster

Well-known member
Hello,

I am a wedding disc jockey and for the past several months I have been capturing highlight videos at weddings where I am the disc jockey. I then upload these videos to Vimeo.

**DISCLAIMER** - I use these videos as a marketing tool to be able to show prospective clients actual events that I have performed at. I do not promote myself as a videographer to my wedding clients.

I shoot with a Panasonic AC-160A and here are the typical settings I use.

720P/60
Manual White/Black Balance
Manual Iris
Auto (if you can call it that) Focus
Standard Scene File

A few months ago I started offering Up-lighting to my clients and this has been a little bit difficult for me to capture on video properly. Here is a wedding that I did this past weekend.

http://www.pifemaster.com/blog/the-terrace-room-butler-wedding-ryan-joey-morrone/

Please take a look at the video and offer any advice on the following issues:

At around the :30 to :40 mark. You will see that it looks too color saturated. I tried to expose the room so that the table settings and features were not too dark, but the up-lighting seems to be blown out.

At around 1:50 mark the wedding ceremony starts. During the ceremony, the bride & groom are a little underexposed and the up-lighting seems a little overpowering.

Is anyone able to provide me with some advice on the best way to shoot in these conditions? Is there possibly a scene file that would be better than the standard/default when I am using my up-lighting.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
OK, three things that might help. . . .

1. on zooms - they seem to be smooth at times and jerky at other times. Hard to know if its my internet connection or your filming but if the latter you can dramatically improve zooming with a $99 remote from Studio 1 Productions. I did a review of the remote somewhere here but you can get to their site easily enough http://www.studio1productions.com/zoom-controller-dvx.htm

2. on exposure - when we first see the bride/groom, they do look underexposed. The scene has a lot of backlighting. What was your f-stop setting? What was your gain setting? Hopefully at 0db. Why did you record at 60p instead of say 24p.

Did you have the Focus/Y Get on and the box positioned on one of the two? What was the % reading? Did you check waveform?

3. it looks like you were hand holding the camera. Was OIS on or off? (not that it makes a big difference as I find the OIS is no substitute for a shoulder rig or, of course a tripod)


Other miscellaneous comments:

There is flash banding, not much anyone can do about this.

I would try FILMIC for your scene.
 
I see the LED lights flashing and strobing, especially when the camera moves. This is probably a consequence of the lights being dimmed down, and the PWM dimmers in the fixtures not being designed to run at a high enough frequency to be compatible with your video frame rate. I would say the problem was fairly subtle, except that your whole point here is to sell your lighting design and services, so people who watch the video are probably going to be paying close attention to the quality of the light. Keeping your camera movements very slow and steady (use a tripod!) will help, and shooting at a frame rate less than 60 might be enough to mask the problem. Or just don't dim the LED lights.

I'd try shooting this at 1080p30 or 1080p24 and see if it looks better.

I felt like the whole video looked a little overexposed at times.

- Greg
 
kwkeirstead -Thank you very much for the response.

I noticed the jerkiness of the zooms & pans as well on the uploaded video. It is not as bad when I watch the video on my local computer or in Adobe Premier Pro (CS6). It seems to be exaggerated when Vimeo compresses the video (I think). However, I have considered adding a controller such as the one you listed for some time. Will that controller mount to the handle of my tripod? Here is the tripod I am using: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...VK502C_Mvh502A_Head_535_Cf_Tripod_Padded.html

My iris was wide open and gain was set at 0 db. I recorded at 60 frames per second as opposed to 24 due to what I feel is an almost useless auto focus on the 160A. I have bad results with auto focus at 60 frames and an unusable auto focus at 24 frames. I have read somewhere that the auto focus will respond better at 60 frames because the camera is being fed data at a higher/faster rate and thus able to make focus decisions better (I may not be describing it correctly, but that was the basic idea). I would much rather shoot at 24 frames to get more of a film look, I just can not deal with a manual focus while at a wedding. Had I know the focus characteristics of this camera before buying it, I would be using something different.

I have never used Y Get and to be honest, I do not know what it is. I will have to do some research.

During the opening room shots, the wedding ceremony and the formal dances, I was using the tripod I listed above (OIS off). During open dancing I was hand holding the camera with OIS on.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
Greg - you are exactly correct. During the ceremony I had the lights dimmed down to 65%. This was done mainly because the client wanted a little more intimate feel and felt that the lights were too bright at 100%.

I upload all of my videos to Vimeo once edited. I thought that it was best to record in the same format as the final output. Since Vimeo prefers 720 that is why I chose that format. Am I wrong in using the 720p60?

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
kwkeirstead - after looking further I saw the quick clamp on the bottom of the controller and I am sure it will mount to my tripod handle. I just placed an order for one of them and it should be here the beginning of next week.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
Glad to see you ordererd the remote. Put duct tape around the tripod handle and clamp the remote on this. If you do metal to metal, you will wear off the paint on the handle. I coiled up the wires at attached twist ties, looped them over the tripod handle and this gives you precisely the right free wire length to get to the plug in points on the camera.

ZOOM
The remote should help you a lot

FOCUS
I did a lot of testing on autofocus over a period of serveral months. This is a long lens and it has to move, so you cannot expect it to be super fast on auto. Auto on any camera gives, in my view, consistent bad results, but I do understand that when you have too much to do, you have little choice but to turn it on.

If you have Focus Assist on at the LCD (red) and turn OFF the color at the viewfinder, you will find it much easier to focus (you may already be doing this).

I also have a Bosch GLR225 laser distance meter permantly mounted on the camera (be careful never to use it when people are present). At Open Iris, you can scope out a room in advance and memorize three distance settings and your focus should be good enough for most crowd scenes. I would like to get an HD 7-9 in monitor.

It is true that the camera goes faster to focus lock in at higher frame rates. But, a main factor is the arc through which you travel to get from your source to your target. If you can pan, tilt, zoom simultaneously (the remote helps) try to take the camera though an arc that includss high contrast objects on the way to the target. Easier said than done AND of course you don't want to go through an arc in such a way as to detract from your recording. You have to go slowly to avoid blur in any case.

Here are the links to my testing on auto focus

http://youtu.be/5r_QPIA4tsY (close object, distant object)
http://youtu.be/Vi7Pcyw3NlE (intermediate object, intermediate object)

OIS
I have not had good results with this. See the picture on the left of my Gliders Grey rig (about $125) - This helps me a lot with stability. The only negative is you cannot breathe when you are recording (somewhat of an exaggeration).


You will solve a number of problems by reading and practicing the following

1. Barry's book - Waveform pages 16 &51-52-53
2. Barry's book - Focus/Y Get pages 16 & 215

More questions (sorry)
---------------------
Did you use a white card just before the bride/groom first appeared at the arch?

Clearly, once you got to where lights were all over the place, there is nothing you could do but grin and bear it. It's quite remarkable to be in a position where you are "selling" up-lighting, the arch enemy of videographers, while trying at the same time to make a good video.

Hope this helps . . . .

Just remember video is not my day job. If anyone sees bad advice here, feel free to shoot me down.
 
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I am very anxious to get the remote. I have a wedding ceremony & reception this Saturday and I would have loved to have it, but I will have to wait until next weekend to play with it.

I am re-uploading the video to vimeo as I type this. I watched it again on my local computer and it is much smoother than the Vimeo version. I am hoping it was just an issue with their conversion.

I will take a close look tomorrow at the pages you indicated in Barry's book.

Regarding white balance, I used my white balance card BEFORE I turned on the up-lighting. My thought process was that because I did this because I was using different colored lighting throughout the evening. This may have been a mistake. I probably should have set white balance after the lighting was on and then re-adjusted each time I changes the up-lighting colors. Naturally, once the lights were changing to all different colors, I would not be able to adjust further. Thoughts???

Thanks for all of your advice!

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
Well after looking at the footage to me as a client it looks good I wouldn't see any issue because a client is focusing on what the memories will be and what they see, not what we (video guy) will see.

So with that being said this is a wedding video, you really have no control over the lighting like if you were shooting a movie with a wedding where lights would be set to you and not what the couple wants. I will offer a few tips, might help might not each wedding is different.

I would shoot in 1080/60 (if room allows on card) at min F4 with gain at 0 if possible, not wide open. Shutter off, as far as LED lights go not allot you can do. You can correct it in post, but more work that I would do. Have 2 white balance points, once with no on board camera light and one with. Also might want to try a white balance card (the type a still camera uses) with waveform turned on, then you can see exact what your whites and blacks are and adjust to match. I would over expose the background some to get my clients faces, in post you can correct the over exposed background.

So I still see no issue with your video work, looks great. Just get lots of b roll at many different angles and shallow shots using a tripod for filler. Weddings are the hardest you only get one shot, one tip create a great looking title for the video in photoshop and use that for the Vimeo cover that will sell more than you think.

Good job
 
rzr219 - Thank you very much for taking the time to post your comments. Can you clarify a couple of things you mentioned?

You recommended shooting at a min F4. Can you briefly explain the advantage of shooting at F4 as opposed to wide open. Also, if there is limited light, would it be better to shoot at F4 with +6 db gain or open at 0 db gain. I am trying to get my head around the advantages of either scenario.

I am also not sure what you mean by SHUTTER OFF.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
pifemaster said:
rzr219 - Thank you very much for taking the time to post your comments. Can you clarify a couple of things you mentioned?

You recommended shooting at a min F4. Can you briefly explain the advantage of shooting at F4 as opposed to wide open. Also, if there is limited light, would it be better to shoot at F4 with +6 db gain or open at 0 db gain. I am trying to get my head around the advantages of either scenario.

I am also not sure what you mean by SHUTTER OFF.
Click to expand...

The lens is the most sharpest around F4 and up a bit that is why I mentioned shooting around F4, however if light does not permit then open up some. Also the Iris will shut down when you zoom to F3.4 so if you can keep it around there you wont to change the F setting for light. I would try not to add gain, if I did it would be in smaller amounts like +3.

As far as shutter of normally it is set to 180 degrees so when you shoot at 60 Frames your shutter is at 120. If you set your shutter to off or 60 when shooting 60P you will gain more light, like a still camera the faster the shutter the more light you need to capture the image. Thats why many time when I shoot I shoot in 24 so I can run my shutter at 48 (as long as I dont pan or zoom too fast).

Now these are way I like to shoot, everyone is different and most important is to get the shot. Even if it dosent look great still get it and try not to worry about all the technical stuff too much, just shoot. The more you try things you may find out 80% of the time you cant make the shot the way you want because remember it run-n-gun work. Try tests under controlled situations first NEVER ONSITE and see what it does. Play it back on a full sized screen so you can really see.

Relax dont worry, only you will really know I have never had a complaint about my quality from a customer. I am not happy many of the times because I net pick it apart. I have my wife look at my footage and if she is good I know it is fine :thumbsup:
 
rzr219 - Very good information. I have never messed with the shutter to this point. I just re-read the section in Barry's book about setting the shutter and I have set it at 1/60.0 (as I am shooting at 60 frames). I have a wedding ceremony & reception tomorrow so I will try to keep my lens around F4 when possible.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
Well I made some changes at my wedding this past Saturday. I shot the video at 1080p60, I tried to keep my lens at F4 as much as possible and almost never went below 2.4. I kept my gain at 0db all night. Here is the video. PLEASE feel free to provide feedback. I am trying to learn as much as possible.

http://www.pifemaster.com/blog/the-atrium-in-prospect-pa-wedding-brian-michelle-osterried/

One thing I was not happy with was the exposure during the wedding ceremony. I had my nd filter at 1/4 and my lens at F4. I should have probably used the next nd filter, but was concerned the bride and groom would be too under-exposed. I opted to shoot with the setting I mentioned and then when I looked at the video on my PC, I realized it was really blown out. I also see quite a few flares on the video. Unfortunatley, I did not have an external monitor on the camera at the wedding. I have since decided that I need to invest in a good on-camera monitor to help eliminate this issue in the future. (see this post here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?305160-Need-Help-Choosing-an-On-Camera-Monitor-for-AC-160A ).

Again, any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
You had a tough situation during they ceremony due to the window situation. You did a good job overriding the iris to compensate for back-lighting. I think a point light on the camera, with the right color balance, would have filled in some of the faces and shadows but that is a tough call. The sweet spot on the Panny 130 is about 5.6. Anything above that will soften the picture. Good job and good colors. We see 'things' that MOST clients do not. Sometimes it is better to underexpose than overexpose. Clipping is difficult to correct whereas underexposure can be somewhat adjusted in post. On a few dances, you could have bumped-up the gain a little.

Personally, I use a LED light that has a dimmer AND the LED light use can adjust the color temperature of the light if the white balance is too blue or red on the light itself; even thouigh I manually white balance the camera. Go for better lighting in lieu of using the cameras electronic gain.
 
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Lou,

Thank you for the comments. I have tried to convince that banquet hall for quite some time to place white curtains over those open windows above the vinyl walls. All the photographers and videographers complain about the backlight.

I do have an on-camera light, ( http://it-photovideo.com/product/312-asz-led-video-light-kit-latest-design-bi-color ) Unfortunately, it did not have enough punch from the distance I was located to make a difference. The light I have is also adjustable for color temperature and I love that feature.

I agree that during open dancing I was a little too underexposed. I made a conscious decision to try to stay around F4 as much as possible. I think I would have obtained a little better result if I would have opened up the iris a little more during dancing.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
pifemaster said:
Well I made some changes at my wedding this past Saturday. I shot the video at 1080p60, I tried to keep my lens at F4 as much as possible and almost never went below 2.4. I kept my gain at 0db all night. Here is the video. PLEASE feel free to provide feedback. I am trying to learn as much as possible.

http://www.pifemaster.com/blog/the-atrium-in-prospect-pa-wedding-brian-michelle-osterried/

One thing I was not happy with was the exposure during the wedding ceremony. I had my nd filter at 1/4 and my lens at F4. I should have probably used the next nd filter, but was concerned the bride and groom would be too under-exposed. I opted to shoot with the setting I mentioned and then when I looked at the video on my PC, I realized it was really blown out. I also see quite a few flares on the video. Unfortunatley, I did not have an external monitor on the camera at the wedding. I have since decided that I need to invest in a good on-camera monitor to help eliminate this issue in the future. (see this post here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?305160-Need-Help-Choosing-an-On-Camera-Monitor-for-AC-160A ).

Again, any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

After looking at the video it looks great always keep in mind its a wedding so its dynamic always changing. Also I dont know of any bride that would want lights on them during an sunny cremonay. You did the right thing overexpose the background so you can see your clients in the foreground. I like it the white is nice and clean and you can see everyone great job. The footage looks very sharp. My clients would be very happy with that footage, if you would have had it on auto iris you would have lost the detail in the brides face so manual is the way to go. Very nice job and quick turnaround time, best way to make money.
Speaking of making money, I am just starting to offer my footage on Blue Ray now as I cant stand how low quality a DVD looks now after shooting and editing it in HD. I found building a burner system will save me almost half, first project coming soon.
 
Thank you for the comments rzr219. I guess I just get frustrated because I want the videos to look like a Hollywood movie. I know that this is next to impossible with my budget/talent, but I won't be happy until I learn as much as I can to get a great looking product. I think I will really benefit from an on-camera monitor since I will be able to see what's going on in greater detail. I plan on ordering this Marshall monitor as soon as B&H Photo resumes online ordering later tonight http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._Electronics_V_LCD70MD_3G_7_HDMI_Monitor.html

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com
 
The more you shoot with it the better you will get and also more comfortable. Just dont get to worried about the techincs, always remeber why they hired you and not the other guy. The external montior will help you see better and have waveform and peaking and you can then know by looking at the monitor and seeing what color is on screen how your exposer is. If you shoot all your videos like what you have posted you will not have any complaints. Just make sure you are charging enough as it sets you apart from the rest.
 
Looking good !

A wedding is not a documentary, you have to film what is going and that includes a lot of dancing etc.

If you could just get rid of the flash photographers it would give a better result.

For some of the crowd dancing, I would suggest a two foot high step stool with your tripod extended to 84 inches. This would give a better angle.

I liked the tour of the building. I thought there was a little too much time spent on the tables. I liked the smooth zooms. At the cake, it seemed a bit jiggly, but only for a short time.

The work I do is easy compared to a one-chance event lke a wedding - I record stage events - if you screw it up, you go back the next day, and the next and sometimes the next. For documentaries, well, you can have many takes before the actors get totally fed up, so I think what you did was excellent.

Now, if you have to provide the music AND attend to recording and worry about light and sound, this is more than the average multi-instrument street performer has to deal with.

As the old man on the street said when someone asked "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" the answer remains "Practice, practice, practice"
 
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