Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Had a quick play yesterday to get to know the camera a little better.
Planing on shooting something more exciting this weekend.
Planing on shooting something more exciting this weekend.
Playing with the Canon XC10
- Thread starter Lobbamobba
- Start date
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Stress test of the built in ND, no highlights blown.
(except for a tiny bit in two clouds)
This turned out to be a little run n gun test. Last minute I got 2 hours of free schedule to visit one of my towns race tracks.
So with no tripod, mic, access to get closer and under a 2h time limit from entrance to exit, what could I get.
It a shame I didn't bring a mic because there was 20min break which I could have used for interviews.
(except for a tiny bit in two clouds)
This turned out to be a little run n gun test. Last minute I got 2 hours of free schedule to visit one of my towns race tracks.
So with no tripod, mic, access to get closer and under a 2h time limit from entrance to exit, what could I get.
It a shame I didn't bring a mic because there was 20min break which I could have used for interviews.
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Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Did lots of lens tests today during our morning walk. Haven'tedited, will probably use it for a review. But I puled some frame grabs.
Closest Focus at 24 mm (20 cm)
Closest Focus at 240 mm (50 cm)
240mm Lets you keep distance (but of course less background).
"Shallow" depth of field 24 mm f2.8
"Shallow"depth of field 80ish mm f4.0
"Shallow" depth of field 240mm f5.6
Closest Focus at 24 mm (20 cm)
Closest Focus at 240 mm (50 cm)
240mm Lets you keep distance (but of course less background).
"Shallow" depth of field 24 mm f2.8
"Shallow"depth of field 80ish mm f4.0
"Shallow" depth of field 240mm f5.6
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
It's seems like a deep camera. The only way to get shallow DOF aesthetic is to shoot at 240mm 5.6 at the minimum focus distance, then it looks pretty shallow, the bokeh is creamy and nice too, when you get it that is.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
The backround is out of focus already at 24mm but I see what you mean. 1" or s16 is not for SDOF, neither is camcorders imo.
Then iTs s35 or FF, m4/3 in a pinch
You can get wonderful shallow DOF with the S16 BMPCC with a lens as short as the Sigma 18-35mm., - at 100mm (FF equiv.) it's a great close-up lens with it's 9 blade rounded iris.
With my nikon primes, 105 and 135, the bokeh and blur are gorgeous on the Pocket and it's a bit smaller than 1"
It's about the right lens and composition. With them, a 1" sensor certainly allows for nice shallow DOF.
With my nikon primes, 105 and 135, the bokeh and blur are gorgeous on the Pocket and it's a bit smaller than 1"
It's about the right lens and composition. With them, a 1" sensor certainly allows for nice shallow DOF.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
jimagine: Yes with the pocket not with the XC10, when you have the ability to change lenses you can get very shalllow DOF on s16/1" sensors using the right glass, Fixed lens here, the DOF of the XC10 is 24-240mm f/7.6 to f/15 on a Full Frame camera/lens. a FF 240mm F/15 is pretty shallow though. But a 50mm F/9 is really, really deep.
Masaya Maediya, high end Canon executive recently said the XC10 is for suitable news, which makes since, I would love to shoot news on this, any shallower would give me trouble. Also note how Canon gave it a 4:2:2 broadcast-approved codec, for the broadcast/news industry.
It's well thought out and targeted at a hungry market really.
I can see every news cameraman shooting with one on the streets in a few months, with the image, size, media, codec, battery life, depth of field, AF, IS,
For narrative filmmaking, I think the lack of control over depth of field makes it immediately unsuitable for that market.
It will definitely have some use on narrative though as a B cam/crash/drone cam for the larger Cinema line projects too because of C-Log and XF-AVC codec and colour science. I imagine it will replace GoPros on Cx00 projects.
Masaya Maediya, high end Canon executive recently said the XC10 is for suitable news, which makes since, I would love to shoot news on this, any shallower would give me trouble. Also note how Canon gave it a 4:2:2 broadcast-approved codec, for the broadcast/news industry.
It's well thought out and targeted at a hungry market really.
I can see every news cameraman shooting with one on the streets in a few months, with the image, size, media, codec, battery life, depth of field, AF, IS,
For narrative filmmaking, I think the lack of control over depth of field makes it immediately unsuitable for that market.
It will definitely have some use on narrative though as a B cam/crash/drone cam for the larger Cinema line projects too because of C-Log and XF-AVC codec and colour science. I imagine it will replace GoPros on Cx00 projects.
Ebrahim, I was just clarifying your words " 1" or s16 is not for SDOF".
You made a general statement about sensors not the XC10 which is what I wanted to clarify for people who might get confused.
And of course the quality of the DOF is contingent not just on the speed of the lens, but on the quality - the way it renders OOF areas.
You made a general statement about sensors not the XC10 which is what I wanted to clarify for people who might get confused.
And of course the quality of the DOF is contingent not just on the speed of the lens, but on the quality - the way it renders OOF areas.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Yes yes, I've shot plenty with my three BMPCC, xc10, rx100 and s16 film cameras to know that you CAN get "shallow" death of field.
What I mean is, who cares?
If I really value sdof and need it for a specific project I shoot full frame or s35. M4/3 is pushing it but doable.
Anyone asking me to recommend a camera for sdof will not get the answer "bmpcc with lens-x at f0.95".
I will say s35 at f2.8 or FF at 4.0.
In other words I did absolutely not buy the xc10 for sdof, I use FF for that
What I mean is, who cares?
If I really value sdof and need it for a specific project I shoot full frame or s35. M4/3 is pushing it but doable.
Anyone asking me to recommend a camera for sdof will not get the answer "bmpcc with lens-x at f0.95".
I will say s35 at f2.8 or FF at 4.0.
In other words I did absolutely not buy the xc10 for sdof, I use FF for that
analog_addict
Well-known member
This still seems like primarily a secondary camera for things like drones, car mounting, crash cam etc.
For example if you were shooting the main content on a C300 the XC10 would be perfect as a little b-cam.
For example if you were shooting the main content on a C300 the XC10 would be perfect as a little b-cam.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
That and also for Hard-core Run N Gun, reporting, webb etc.
In other words a camcorder. Many confused camcorders with stills-, cinema- or production cameras.
A recent example for me was yesterday. I whent down to a beach with the dog and had a 5d2 with ML with me.
Turns out it was full of people, barbecue, volleyball, kids and everything during an awesome sunset.
I shot a few clips with the 5D but constantly though "I wish I had brought the XC10".
Probably would have quadrupled the amount of footage if I had it.
Not only due to speed but also reach and stealth.
zwarte_kat
Active member
Can anyone explain to me how wide this camera really goes during filming HD and 4K. I think Canon says something like "photos are 24mm but video is closer to 28 because the 16:9 crop". Does this mean the XC10 will give a similar field of view to a 5D Mark III shooting video with a 24mm, or 28mm?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
I just compared to a 24mm on a 5D and its pretty much identical when shooting video on the XC10.
When I switch to photo mode it's a tiny bit wider.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
This turned out to be a little run n gun test. Last minute I got 2 hours of free schedule to visit one of my towns race tracks.
So with no tripod, mic, access to get closer and under a 2h time limit from entrance to exit, what could I get.
It a shame I didn't bring a mic because there was 20min break which I could have used for interviews.
So with no tripod, mic, access to get closer and under a 2h time limit from entrance to exit, what could I get.
It a shame I didn't bring a mic because there was 20min break which I could have used for interviews.
diegocervo
Well-known member
nice
For any given focal length of lens, DOF is the same regardless of camera format. 50mm DOF is the same on an S16mm sensor as it is on an FF35. The field of view is the only thing that changes between the two.
This is a 50mm f2.4 shot from my old 1/4" CCD Canon GL2. The pot is about the size of a human head. The sharp focus DOF is only about half the depth of the pot.
A FF35 camera would give a tight medium two shot of the whole table at the same settings and DOF.
This is a 50mm f2.4 shot from my old 1/4" CCD Canon GL2. The pot is about the size of a human head. The sharp focus DOF is only about half the depth of the pot.
A FF35 camera would give a tight medium two shot of the whole table at the same settings and DOF.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
For any given focal length of lens, DOF is the same regardless of camera format. 50mm DOF is the same on an S16mm sensor as it is on an FF35. The field of view is the only thing that changes between the two.
This is a 50mm f2.4 shot from my old 1/4" CCD Canon GL2. The pot is about the size of a human head. The sharp focus DOF is only about half the depth of the pot.
A FF35 camera would give a tight medium two shot of the whole table at the same settings and DOF.
Yes, but I think you know what we mean. A FF is a better choice than a s16 if one wants alot of SDOF. Let's keep it simple.
Same with focal length, you and I know that a 50 is a 50 no matter what sensor.
But if someone asks I'm still gonna tell them it's 150 on s16. Less confusion.
Lobbamobba
Well-known member
Got some fun stuff in the mail today.
Among other things a new on camera mic for ambient sound. Will be fun to test it out on the XC10 and other cameras.
Besides the good price to performance and features the form factor was a deciding factor. I like using my "EVF" flipped up so it couldn't protrude backwards to much.
I also took the opportunity to test the XC10 as a camera for product reviews/demos. The reach and parfocal lens is a nice feature for it. A bit limiting with a small sensor for that type of video but totally usable.
Among other things a new on camera mic for ambient sound. Will be fun to test it out on the XC10 and other cameras.
Besides the good price to performance and features the form factor was a deciding factor. I like using my "EVF" flipped up so it couldn't protrude backwards to much.
I also took the opportunity to test the XC10 as a camera for product reviews/demos. The reach and parfocal lens is a nice feature for it. A bit limiting with a small sensor for that type of video but totally usable.