Philip Bloom's "Hirano San"

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But it's not the same quality vagarob, it's better. Not to mention, it has a TON of features the DSLR doesn't. How does that not sound like a better cam?
 
Maybe I'm odd, but I'm totally digging the footage and the camera.

I miss the old days on DVXuser when the DVX was just out and everyone seemed to appreciate the tool we had for what we could do with it - not what we couldn't.

Now, it seems like there is a whole bunch that just comes on to complain and nitpick. :(
 
I for one am really excited about this cam. Even if I can get the same look that I currently get with my gh1, I will be extremely happy. I miss timecode, I miss the form factor, I miss so many things about having a professional video camera, yes video camera, that I will gladly pay the 4800 for the cam. In fact I have pre-ordered 2. I know it may not be the perfect fit for everyone, but for what I will be using it for, I couldn't ask for a better setup right now.
 
I think I am in the same place as VAGAROB.Swanny - I think that he is referring to newly announced Sony which is better than the AF100 in every way.This is how I see it - it is kind of a half-way house between the big boys and the low end. For £5000 that is fair.The gap between the big guns - the newly announced Sony, RED offerings, F35, Alexa etc really lies in that one can get the absolute maximum quality out of the sensor in various ways.That limits you in no way.
This cam gives you no way to do that ( 8 bit 4.2.2 HD-SDI is very good but not near sensor quality) and the next cam up from that is the Scarlet. Sony's offering is compelling but pricey.

RED seems the way for me now but if I see more footage that suggests the AF100 can be very good - then I will have another look.But for now - hmmmmmmmmmmm the camera was in the best hands according to some and if that is the case based on the footage. I am waiting a little longer.
 
I can get a crappy video look and more filmic look out of the SAME camera, if I have enough time to tweak the hell out of it.

Once the final AF100 production model is out, the top players will put it through its paces and tell the rest of us how to optimize this bad boy. More test footage. More recommendations. Same old cycle, just like with other cams that came before it.

My guess is some of the"pre-order cancel-ers" will, at that time, be taking their first bite of crow.
 
I got up this morning and was delighted that we had new footage to view so I played it out full screen and then my hart sank, what happened it was full of many of the problems already mentioned here. With a broken hart I went back to my normal day thinking that the AFX may be a bust, after a few hours I watch it again this time on the Vimeo page without blowing it up to full screen, and wow what a difference and then it hit me maybe all of the noise in the blacks and other crap was do to the compression to put it on Vimeo and not the part of the AFX (AF-100). We need to see the original edit pre-compression, maybe Phillip will post the file so we can see what the camera can really do. Until I know that I am looking at the out put of the camera and not some overly compressed web clip I will with hold judgement.
 
Considering what has been posted as "footage" on these forums for the past 12 months, I'm astounded at the reaction to this video.

I'd really challenge a good deal of people on this forum to go out and in one day come back with shots half as good as this.

Looking good. Can't wait to get my hands on one.
 
swanny said:
But it's not the same quality vagarob, it's better. Not to mention, it has a TON of features the DSLR doesn't. How does that not sound like a better cam?
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Aw I know. I really like the idea of the AF100, and Jan is really cool. I wanted to love her lil camera. For me, it just doesnt work. I already own a VG10 and 5D that I hoped to replace with the AF100 but its just not a big leap up.

I think we all fell in love with the crews.tv test yea? what we didnt realize (or want to believe) was the circumstances it was under. Using a $80,000 Ultra prime set, and $20,000 worth of Litepanels and Kino Flo. You could make mobile phone video look good under the right circumstances.

I wasnt under any illusion you could put this camera anywhere and make it look amazing -- i just didnt think it would look like a DSLR video either.
 
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swanny said:
If you want a RED or the Sony, go buy one and tell me how cool it shooting with it, but in the meantime I'll be putting out a higher end product than what I currently am now, and that is the whole point of this camera.
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My sentiments exactly. I just don't understand all the "piss off" attitude. We all have a right to voice opinions...but when one just goes over the same "why I don't like this or that" at nauseum ...it just gets down right irritating.

If you want the AF-100 to be like a RED or the new Sony F3, here is a news flash....It will not. If you can buy those cameras, please do so, but if all you got is 5K - 7K...then this is your reality.

Be honest with yourselves...many of you would have a significant "leg up" with a camera like this. A good filmmaker must know how to operate within the pluses and minuses of his tools to create compelling imagery.

I for one welcome this camera for what it is...I know it has a place within our company and I stand firm for pre-ordering it. Do I like it 100%? Absolutely not, yet I am excited to get it in house to be able to get it on the field and create...IT IS A HUGE LEAP FORWARD from our Sony UVW-100's that started our company.
 
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The one thing that is disturbing is colour clipping in these demo clips and maybe noise in the night scenes. Compression adds alot of noise/blocking so this is something that can be ignored when watching vimeo videos. But colours never gets screwed in vimeo compression. At least not so that they clip. I can find colour errors in all clips in the Bloom demo be it clipping or un-natural colours. But I don't think Bloom would let this pass so I reckon this will be explained on how it can turn out this bad.

I'll stay with my pre-order since I believe things can be solved. Now I want to see some technical spot on demo clips.
 
swanny said:
But it's not the same quality vagarob, it's better. Not to mention, it has a TON of features the DSLR doesn't. How does that not sound like a better cam?
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Because buttons, features and resolution charts have had their ass handed to them by sex appeal 2 years ago.

"Hirano San" would have blown our socks off had it come out 6 months before "Reverie". A few years ago, 24p and a 180 degree shutter was all that was needed to get the "film look". Then DOF adapters came and added shallow DOF to the list of ingredients. Then DSLRs came and threw photo-style color response and highlight rolloff into the mix. "Hirano San" fails the last part. Doesn't mean the AF-100 isn't capable of delivering it. But it might need some massaging of the in-camera gamma curves and color matrix settings to achieve the Look.

One common thing I noticed in the few AF-100 clips floating around (Alfa Romeo, Crews.tv, the Bloom clips) is how harsh is the transition between really bright and fully clipped. We've been spoiled by DSLRs and now we expect that rolloff to be smooth or "film like". Doesn't mean more dynamic range necessarily. Just a more elegant curve in the highlights.

(I know... pre-production models... yadda yadda yadda...)

--Xavier
 
God, what a bunch of whiners! They said the hardware was 95% done and the software isn't done. You don't even know if the picture profiles are enabled yet. Given the look I doubt full gammas are enabled. And Panny always ships with that saturated look.

These were just intended as beauty shots to show off the DOF, which it does. I didn't see any moire or aliasing, but there was nothing pushing those issues.

This clip didn't tell us anything more that was good, or bad about the camera. You sound like a bunch of disappointed Scarlet fanbois.

"I" will have to wait to see some real resolution tests and trumpet charts to test moire frequencies, and "you" will have to wait to see results under a full menu system and after somene learns the specifics of this cameras picture profiles and gamma settings.

In the mean time, whining won't help. You know nothing about what the camera is capable of doing, yet. We all must wait.
 
If we whine I bet this goes on to Barry and the boys and then to Panasonic so that hopefully the AF100 will be even better. It's not a bad camera but the last pieces has to fall into place.
 
Super8 said:
My sentiments exactly. I just don't understand all the "piss off" attitude. We all have a right to voice opinions...but when one just goes over the same "why I don't like this or that" at nauseum ...it just gets down right irritating.

If you want the AF-100 to be like a RED or the new Sony F3, here is a news flash....It will not. If you can buy those cameras, please do so, but if all you got is 5K - 7K...then this is your reality.
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Err... No one is saying piss off. I think this camera will work for a lot of people... people who want to switch from DSLR to.....DSLR in a different form factor. There is another group who wanted to move up from DSLR style video -- something someone promised would be better. This is not that camera (imho.)

Duke M. said:
They said the hardware was 95% done and the software isn't done.
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EDIT: The camera was done when they said it was @ 75%. These are marketing defenses. Soon it will be "the camera is 110% done and with the new firmware it will be 150%! " :D
 
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Personally, I think that demo clip was great. Look how much detail we have of the man driving in the wider shot passenger seat. Look how much detail we have inside and on the buildings. My 7D would have never done that...

And i agree about the gamma curves, looks like this one is stock out of the box. I know we can expect much better things once settings have been adjusted.
 
Coming from the HMC 150 this looks like 5 steps up but coming from the 7d / 5d ...this looks like 5 steps down IMO.

There are other scene files out there that would to the AG AF 100 justice I believe.
I thought the market footage allthough alot more compressed looked better then this .
Here's a request can we have the guys from the alfa romeo clip have a go at it or are there more clips coming out ?
 
DID ANYONE NOTICE THAT THIS SAMPLE FOOTAGE IS DOWN REZZED?!?!?!?

This will make a big difference in things. The footage download at vimeo says, "1280x540, 331.86MB". Barry said earlier that everyone was shooting at 1920x1080 and no one was shooting 720. People are getting their panties in a twist based off a rushed edit from Bloom, making quick decisions on their upcoming equipment and livelyhood is foolish. Gimmie a break.
 
henryolonga said:
I cancelled my pre order a few days ago anyway - mainly because of the Sony anouncement and RED prepping for the Scarlet release soon. I also know that better is just around the corner and three months wait won't kill me. 3k RAW or 1920 X 1080 S-Log at 4;4:4 is the most compelling reason for me.
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By your estimation when would you say the Scarlet is shipping exactly?
 
vagarob said:
I wasnt under any illusion you could put this camera anywhere and make it look amazing -- i just didnt think it would look like a DSLR video either. The only camera I know that can do that (under $50K) is Red. Instant Cinematic Film Look.
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I find that statement almost laughable - I dont think anyone at RED would even agree with that, especially those with a background in cinematography.

ok first things first - THIS IS A HIGHLY COMPRESSED VIMEO CLIP.

Theres how many shots in there where Philip was shooting straight at the sun? And a number of shots I thought were a tad too hot anyway.

Theres a lot to be said for fine tuning these types of cameras and these settings dont look optimal Id agree with that.

If youve seen my posts the last few days, you would note me posting in the Sony threads regarding the S35 camera pointing out the positives as I see them - so Im not brand centric. But to me theres lots to like about what Ive seen thus far.

Now go back through the clip and show me the aliasing and moire on Philip's wide shots with lots of line detail. Couldnt see it it? Me neither.
 
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