Philip Bloom Sony A7s low light video: Death warrant for 5d Mark III?

The exciting part about this level of sensitivity, for me, is that the range of "normal" ISO's continue to climb and ISO's that were considered radical (and quite noisy) a few years ago have become cleaner as sensors progress. I recently needed to shoot a beach scene at what I estimated to be 3200EI because the budget restricted me to a single 6500W putt-putt (generator), and I had to manage African-American actors against the night sky. I opted for C300's on that shoot because I knew it could handle that exposure. I even ended up pushing it to 6400, and what noise we did pick up had kind of a nice quality so we left it intact. I'd love to be able to run some tests but I feel secure that the A7S could achieve similar results and maybe even better. I probably won't need to run up to the insane levels the camera can achieve, but who knows, there may be some use for it down the road. Certainly, exterior night environments like the beach and the forest where there is little to no existing lighting were always a pickle for low budget filmmaking, and high ISO's have made it possible for one to capture the environment effortlessly and then light the foreground action as required.

So: high sensitivity doesn't negate the need for lighting unless that is one's choice, but it does allow one many options and the ability to substitute smaller and less power-hungry units to achieve similar results.
 
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CharlesPapert said:
So: high sensitivity doesn't negate the need for lighting unless that is one's choice, but it does allow one many options and the ability to substitute smaller and less power-hungry units to achieve similar results.
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^ So true!
And about 5Diii vs A7s:
5Diii is great as it is especially in RAW mode and I guess for people who already have it along with lenses and other canon gear, A7s can't be so appealing...but for people who are in the market for their first camera or for a B camera, A7s is a really strong competitor and not only for its low light performance.
 
If you are shooting RAW, it may have a shot, but the a7s is better than the 5D3+H264 in every aspect of image quality, except rolling shutter. In particular it is a lot sharper, and has vastly more DR. And no, I don't need 4K for anything right now.

(and the RS thing can be solved by using the crop mode for shots with a lot of camera movement)
 
Before long, we will be bringing overheads to night shoots so that we can diffuse the light of the moon.

Actually, the nice thing about the high sensitivity is that you can almost completely work with negative fill if you don't have the option of setting up lights.
 
Actually, the nice thing about the high sensitivity is that you can almost completely work with negative fill if you don't have the option of setting up lights.
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In theory, yes. I find it disconcerting to work at very low light levels and try to reduce ambient light because you start flagging off every source you can find, and the walls look fine to eye but somehow they still pop out on the monitor. Night exteriors can be funky because streetlights far away start becoming factors, and of course those aren't easy to control. It's a whole new thing to learn, in many ways.
 
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I was going to comment but mb72378 has perfectly expressed all the points I wanted to make... on a personal note...

My canon 5D mark 3's are not going anywhere. We can shoot ML_RAW on a full frame sensor onboard with cheap batteries, media, and a small footprint, it puts the Canon 5D mark ahead of current generation.

Post work can be a little convoluted, and stability sometimes can be an issue, but there are ways to deal with both quickly and with little fuss. I believe this is a transitional stage at the moment.

On another note!!

I can't believe the jumps in technology and the speed of evolution within the tech markets... its always been fast, but players like BlackMagic Design are really embodying the Ray Kurzwell theory of the technological singularity. BlackMagic literally made a jump in a single year that would have taken 5 years in the past to accomplish.

I'm pretty sure that we will soon have 4K prores/H265 444 on Cfast cards in our DSLR bodies...
 
Scott Freestyle said:
...players like BlackMagic Design are really embodying the Ray Kurzwell theory of the technological singularity. BlackMagic literally made a jump in a single year that would have taken 5 years in the past to accomplish.
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You mean they are embodying Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns, not the Singularity (related concepts, but not the same).

The Technological Singularity (term coined by Vernor Vinge, not Ray Kurzweil) is the point in time when machines surpass human intelligence, precipitating vast changes to society in very short order. Blackmagic Design certainly doesn't embody that.

Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns is an expansion/supercharging of Moore's Law, and that is what you are talking about - and is all the more reason to find a camera that works for you and step off the hamster wheel of continuous upgrades that the manufacturers want us on. Good enough is good enough.
 
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Well.... It was meant to be a little tongue and cheek to be honest!!! at least you knew what I mean't... :) ..

All the same, the rate of change in the industry at the moment is staggering.... and personally, I have invested so much money in the Canon brand, I have of ruled out choosing anything that doesn't have an EF mount.

The A7s certainly has a beautiful image and has lots of great features... so if you decide to take the plunge, you will have a great little camera. Personally, I wouldn't swap my 5D3 for one.. I love the RAW workflow.. exciting times all the same!!
 
IndyFilmPhreak2013 said:
Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns is an expansion/supercharging of Moore's Law, and that is what you are talking about - and is all the more reason to find a camera that works for you and step off the hamster wheel of continuous upgrades that the manufacturers want us on. Good enough is good enough.
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Well put. Unfortunately forums like this promote, by their very nature, the obsessive search for something better thinking they need to upgrade WAY more often than need be.
 
Scott Freestyle said:
I can't believe the jumps in technology and the speed of evolution within the tech markets... BlackMagic literally made a jump in a single year that would have taken 5 years in the past to accomplish.

I'm pretty sure that we will soon have 4K prores/H265 444 on Cfast cards in our DSLR bodies...
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I do agree we're in something between a tipping point and a holding pattern... the Ursa, at $6k, is an impressive piece of tech (if BMD has grown past their so-so implementations of their - in all fairness - very cheap cameras).

Very disappointed to date that there are limited options for a lower-end "I own it" camera. I'd say a Nikon 5300/7100 sensor with 1080-60 and true 10 bit 422 over HDMI would be a nice step. Or similar IQ with internal prores or raw. BMD's lack of 60p really hurts for music videos, effects, fashion/beauty and industrial gigs.

GH4 with RAW would be a killer, but small sensors are a hassle - I'd have one by now if it were APS-C. BMD Cinema Cam with 60p would be nice, but I think that ship has sailed.

We may get a 7200 replacement this month, Photokina's coming, hoping for something exciting.
 
What's that song by Elvis........ "Only Fools Rush In".

I'm in the market for a new camera to complement my 5d3. I've taken a good long look at the gh4, and have decided against it due to it's overly sharp digitized image, also a smaller sensor which gives it a more compressed look, and not as good DOF. The reason I got into DSLR's was for DOF. I love the spacious, luxurious image of the 5d3. The GH4 has been hyped to death on the camera salesman Andrew Reid's website, it was GH4 mania. I actually expressed my concerns about the digitalized image, and Reid acted like this was the first time he had ever heard this...... and I quickly got booted off.

I was waiting for the Sony a7s, but to tell you the truth I don't need night vision googles. Sony is really trying to pitch the tiny size of the A7s as an appealing feature, but I really like the size and weight of the 5d3. The 5D3 just looks a lot more professional and that makes a difference in the minds of others, I know some will say I'm just being superficial and if I were concerned about making real art, I should get a GH4 or Sony A7s, and not worry about my superficial image..... some people on other forums have actually said that.

I see a lot of people on various blogs and websites declare they are dumping Canon for the GH4 and the Sony.... Dave Dugdale and "DSLR video shooter" these guys sound a bit frustrated and angry at Canon. I just won't consider a small sensor camera, the Sony FF might be sharper than the 5d3..... I wouldn't know, it seems however that just about every shoot out with the 5d3 is using the 24-105 f4..... not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. My 70-200 f4 IS lens is much sharper than the 24-105!

With the investment in my lens I going to stay onboard with Canon. It think Canon might come up with something very interesting soon.
 
Look for a used 1dc. It has a very useful 1.3 crop. it is a better overall camera than either the gh4 or the A7s. It produces gorgeous 4k and is a great low light shooter. And it is built like a tank. You will be using it for years to come.
 
lightstrum said:
Look for a used 1dc. It has a very useful 1.3 crop. it is a better overall camera than either the gh4 or the A7s. It produces gorgeous 4k and is a great low light shooter. And it is built like a tank. You will be using it for years to come.
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That's a fantastic camera and if yer into 4K just skip the little ones GH4 and such, and go all the way! I'm thinking now along the lines of a used 5d2 with raw probably the best value on the market these days.
 
It depends on what you want/need. If you care a lot about price and DR (as I do), the a7s is a lot better than the 1DC. If you demand internal 4K recording then the a7s is not even an option.
 
Michael Thames said:
I see a lot of people on various blogs and websites declare they are dumping Canon for the GH4 and the Sony.... Dave Dugdale and "DSLR video shooter" these guys sound a bit frustrated and angry at Canon. I just won't consider a small sensor camera, the Sony FF might be sharper than the 5d3..... I wouldn't know, it seems however that just about every shoot out with the 5d3 is using the 24-105 f4..... not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. My 70-200 f4 IS lens is much sharper than the 24-105!

With the investment in my lens I going to stay onboard with Canon. It think Canon might come up with something very interesting soon.
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I don't disagree with a lot of your post but... "the Sony FF might be sharper than the 5DMKIII......" Well, this I why folks are angry with Canon. The Sony and the Panny ARE sharper than the 5DMKIII. My $300 LX7 is sharper than the 5DMKIII :) (unless you are shooting RAW)

Also saying Canon and "soon" in the same sentence can lead to frustration !
 
One of the things I like about the 5D image is it's softness. It makes people look good and sure saves a lot of money on filters.

Thinking of getting the A7s just for landscapes/cityscapes and slo-mo though...
 
Liam Hall said:
One of the things I like about the 5D image is it's softness. It makes people look good and sure saves a lot of money on filters.

Thinking of getting the A7s just for landscapes/cityscapes and slo-mo though...
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Exactly so! All of the stuff I do is interviews, music videos, I never do landscapes..... well I should never say never. I really don't want to stick a GH4 in someones face:happy: My x-wife had a cooking magazine and she shot the cover photo of a woman here in town, a close up of her face....... the woman was furious when the magazine hit the stands because she thought it was very unflatering.

If you are skilled in the art of lighting, locations etc. you can make amazing films with the 5D3 or an HV-30 for that matter. At this point the tools are so good that it hardly matters to the public which camera it is shot on as long as it doesn't look videoish.

The GH4 has that video look and small sensor, where as the Sony A7s looks more like the 5D3 or film..... of the two, I would get the Sony, but then there is the additional investment in lens and at least for me that's a big deal. So any additional camera for me will have to be a Canon.

I'm fairly new to DSLR camera's, I sold my XH-A1 about 8 months ago and got the 5D3 so I haven't been through the frustration and anger at Canon that many here have, I'm still on my honeymoon, because it's soooo much better than what I had. I have read the blogs though, and understand the issues with Canon, and yes, it might be justifiable to some.
 
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