Philip Bloom Sony A7s low light video: Death warrant for 5d Mark III?
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QuickHitRecord
Veteran
The A7s is impressive, but 5Diii with ML raw has better motion cadence to my eye. This is more important than extreme low light, at least to me.
Bassman2003
Veteran
In some respects yes, but the 5D with H.264 recording needs to go away! 
RAW video is another story as it will stand the test of time imho.
RAW video is another story as it will stand the test of time imho.IndyFilmPhreak2013
Carbonite Member
You and Philip can debate all you want, but you'll continue watching things with B-roll and additional angles that Hollywood has shot with Canon DSLRs for a long time to come.
The real movie industry doesn't follow blogs and change everything for such incremental improvements - good enough was reached long ago and will continue to work (and get work).
The real movie industry doesn't follow blogs and change everything for such incremental improvements - good enough was reached long ago and will continue to work (and get work).
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
The "real movie industry" is a broad term (just like the "indie movie industry" covers everything from multi-million dollar movies with big names down to teenagers making a feature on a 60D) but I can tell you that myself and a good amount of my colleagues are interested in these kind of cameras for various uses. We may not have the tendency to go bonkers over EVERY new camera announced, nor pixel-peep with the intensity shown by many intrepids on sites like this, but there is interest in getting the best match to our primary shooting camera (Alexa etc).
As for me, I largely moved away from the DSLR thing for the past few years but now I'm looking hard at the A7S and GH4, and am especially interested in the S-Log capability of the A7S and will probably pick up one soon. Hence my sniffing around here.
As for me, I largely moved away from the DSLR thing for the past few years but now I'm looking hard at the A7S and GH4, and am especially interested in the S-Log capability of the A7S and will probably pick up one soon. Hence my sniffing around here.
IndyFilmPhreak2013
Carbonite Member
None of my post was innaccurate at all. I've met very very few working 600 pros, and even fewer ASC, who read any blogs whatsoever - and if you ask them about anything P Bloom said they will laugh at you, myself included.
Yes I spewed some hyperbole in reaction to the overdramatic "death warrant" in the title, but the fact remains that Canon DSLRs are still commonplace on big feature and network TV sets, and I've yet to see a GH-anything or any Sony DSLR used on an Alexa shoot (where I spend the majority of my time these days, thank god that Reds have fallen out of favor).
Death warrant is FAR from accurate - but no surprise to see this forum piss itself over anything Bloom says.
BTW, don't let my username fool you, it's based on a joke that Barry made here years ago, around the same time I decided to hide my true identity due to forum trolls taking things too far into the real world - I'm as "Hollywood" as can be, for better or worse.
Yes I spewed some hyperbole in reaction to the overdramatic "death warrant" in the title, but the fact remains that Canon DSLRs are still commonplace on big feature and network TV sets, and I've yet to see a GH-anything or any Sony DSLR used on an Alexa shoot (where I spend the majority of my time these days, thank god that Reds have fallen out of favor).
Death warrant is FAR from accurate - but no surprise to see this forum piss itself over anything Bloom says.
BTW, don't let my username fool you, it's based on a joke that Barry made here years ago, around the same time I decided to hide my true identity due to forum trolls taking things too far into the real world - I'm as "Hollywood" as can be, for better or worse.
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CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Well, I just upped your "very very few" quotient by 1, then. At least on the 600 part--not ASC, just yet!
I know a few shows that were using Nikon D800's and the like, Dexter for sure and I think NCIS LA. We hired an aerial company last year that had a NEX7 onboard their smaller drone which we intercut with Alexa, although not particularly successfully due to limited dynamic range, to be honest (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUiA4blvQPQ, and hopefully everyone will get the visual joke inherent in this piece--it's not supposed to look "good"!).
I got over all of that a while back. The message board/blog mentality is a fascinating animal and you just can't fight it. I don't engage in "this camera will kill that camera" discussions, and I can't begrudge the popularity of any given blogger because they have captured the adulation of the masses. I'm not the demographic, sounds like you aren't either. A great percentage of users no longer care what "Hollywood" does, and that indifference has even spread to the marketing techniques of manufacturers (Blackmagic will sell a lot more units to indie dabblers than as C cameras for big shows and their advertising reflects that).
It's difficult to try and keep up with technology, especially when one is working a lot. My attention is much more focused on newer lighting solutions than cameras anyway--the Alexa takes care of 95% of my needs. My show is on hiatus so I've got a little time to look into some new tech, so here I am.
The a7s is great and I prefer it over a 5dm3 in terms of video, but the 5dm3 is a MUCH better stills camera and the native lenses available for it are much better. I say this because I've had issues with metabones adapters for the a7s and s log is a pain to work with outdoors. The 5dm3 being a stills camera helps it hold resale value as well.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Can you elaborate on both of these points, please? Thanks in advance!
philiplipetz
Veteran
Adapters give painfully slow AF and they do not work with all lenses, and fail all too frequently. S log 2 has a nominal ISO of 3200, requiring heavy filtration outdoors, and with heavy filtration comes the need for IR cut filters to avoid IR coloration artifacts.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
So, are there known issues with the Metabones Mark IV EF adaptor and the A7S?
philiplipetz
Veteran
With ALL electronic adapters there are limitations. It works enough, IS and aperture, not really for AF unless you have time. Great for video but not for rapid still shots.
roxics
Veteran
Can you fill me in on this 600 pros thing? Do you mean there are 600 pros (in a certain field) or is this some kind or organization or elite group of something? Maybe this is some kind of Hollywood lingo I'm not familar with?
I'm far from Hollywood so I don't know all this stuff. But I love to learn it.
roxics
Veteran
As for the 5D3 vs A7S, I don't think it's going to destroy it by any means. Most people don't upgrade their gear everytime a new camera is released. Let alone completely jump systems. Kind of reminds me of those people that have a new smartphone every six months when most people are on two years contracts. They spend a lot of money/time just to have the newest thing, which is usually only an incremental increase in quality/features. I think by the time most people upgrade their 5D3 there will be a 5D4 on the market.
I shoot with a 60D myself right now and have been for the last year. I probably won't upgrade till next summer. By then the 7D2 will be out and possibly other Canon cameras (maybe an 80D?) with newer sensors. I'm in it for the long haul, I don't plan to jump systems just because one fancy new camera drops from X company.
I shoot with a 60D myself right now and have been for the last year. I probably won't upgrade till next summer. By then the 7D2 will be out and possibly other Canon cameras (maybe an 80D?) with newer sensors. I'm in it for the long haul, I don't plan to jump systems just because one fancy new camera drops from X company.
IATSE Local 600 is the International Cinematographers Guild, which is a union for people in the camera related professions in film.
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
OMG! OMG!! OMG!!! This new phone shoots 4k! I'm throwing my C100 in the garbage today! This phone will bury the Alexa! :laugh:
Charles: As to the metabones, he's referring to several comments made that a couple of different people on this forum, at least, have had ef to E mount adapters stop working, sometimes while shooting. Since the range of adapters is between $85 and $400, and there are reports of the most expensive one failing, my inclination is to try my hand at the cheap one for now. I think all the reports of the metabones issue are referring to Mark III and earlier, since the IV hasn't been shipping for long.
I'm super interested in this camera as a replacement for a 5D as well, and that Charles Papert is interested in the possibilities of the camera is nice to know. In my experience, folks working every day in the TV and feature biz (I used to) tend to not be terribly interested in things that are "cutting edge"...it's not that the tech wouldn't be useful to them, but they just don't have time, or are generally only buying things that have a track record (at least for work use).
As for the Philip Bloom comments on the previous page, I think that's terribly unfair to Philip. He has never pretended to be anything other than what he is; a camera man with experience at the BBC and as a freelancer who enjoys shooting short demonstration pieces with many of the latest cameras and lenses. Who incidentally shares an enormous amount of information with the public for free and devotes an amount of energy that I can't fathom to interacting with a user base (his readers) who range from ignorant to annoying to pros and hobbyists, but who all get a lot of value and education out of his work. I've never once seen him imply that his stuff has or should have any sort of effect on Hollywood shooters, although I think some of it has, and he seems to be tickled pink whenever Hollywood filmmaker takes notice of him. If you don't like him, don't read him, but there's thousands of people who have learned a lot from him.
As to the "real movie industry", that's changing every day, and while so many of my friends rely on "keep it in LA" to make their living, the reality is that the industry is going to become less and less centralized, both geographically and in range of production and distribution. Tools like the A7s are speeding that along, and rightly so; in the end there will be more content, and some of that will undoubtedly rise to the top. I would rather see 100 indie films that had a low budget but *with an actual story to tell* that are shot on tools like DSLRs, with the hope that a few are actually good, than a single new "Transformers" movie being made. I've worked on $100M+ movies that had no place being made - we were all grateful for the work but in the end, if that money could have been redistributed to make better, smaller movies, the world and the art/craft would probably be a better place.
I'm super interested in this camera as a replacement for a 5D as well, and that Charles Papert is interested in the possibilities of the camera is nice to know. In my experience, folks working every day in the TV and feature biz (I used to) tend to not be terribly interested in things that are "cutting edge"...it's not that the tech wouldn't be useful to them, but they just don't have time, or are generally only buying things that have a track record (at least for work use).
As for the Philip Bloom comments on the previous page, I think that's terribly unfair to Philip. He has never pretended to be anything other than what he is; a camera man with experience at the BBC and as a freelancer who enjoys shooting short demonstration pieces with many of the latest cameras and lenses. Who incidentally shares an enormous amount of information with the public for free and devotes an amount of energy that I can't fathom to interacting with a user base (his readers) who range from ignorant to annoying to pros and hobbyists, but who all get a lot of value and education out of his work. I've never once seen him imply that his stuff has or should have any sort of effect on Hollywood shooters, although I think some of it has, and he seems to be tickled pink whenever Hollywood filmmaker takes notice of him. If you don't like him, don't read him, but there's thousands of people who have learned a lot from him.
As to the "real movie industry", that's changing every day, and while so many of my friends rely on "keep it in LA" to make their living, the reality is that the industry is going to become less and less centralized, both geographically and in range of production and distribution. Tools like the A7s are speeding that along, and rightly so; in the end there will be more content, and some of that will undoubtedly rise to the top. I would rather see 100 indie films that had a low budget but *with an actual story to tell* that are shot on tools like DSLRs, with the hope that a few are actually good, than a single new "Transformers" movie being made. I've worked on $100M+ movies that had no place being made - we were all grateful for the work but in the end, if that money could have been redistributed to make better, smaller movies, the world and the art/craft would probably be a better place.
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mb72378
Well-known member
Love It! LOL. I personally feel the A7s is a one trick I pony. I light everything I shoot so it's not a huge bonus for me. Besides...lighting isn't just about overall exposure. Sure you can bump up the iso to 400,000 but the image is still going to be boring because you don't have lighting design. I just think too much emphasis is put on low light performance. Just my two cents. The Mark iii is amazing. The ML raw is insane. And let's not forget how muc everyone loved the low light performance back when it came out. The A7s didn't make the mark iii any worse of a camera. It's still the same it's always been! Any the A7s surely isn't going to kill the 5d mark iii. I have clients that are just as happy with stuff shot on my trusty HVX200 as they are with stuff shot on 5d marlk iii. These are just tools.