Perfect Image

Don't know if this has been discussed (only read first 2 pages) but make sure you use firewire. USB makes your video 320x240 15fps.
 
bballplaya283 said:
Don't know if this has been discussed (only read first 2 pages) but make sure you use firewire. USB makes your video 320x240 15fps.

Yup, I import and export with Firewire. I just need assistance with my Export settings BACK onto DV​
 
WhiteWood said:
Adobe Premiere Pro. And I also find that when I import, it frames it with this black..like, it makes my image smaller. And I can't find the setting to make it full screen, so I have to stretch EVERY clip to 185. The stretching of the pixels may have something to do with it too.​
This is your problem. You should not have to do this. Stretching is a guaranteed method to make footage look like crap.

Double check your capture settings and make sure you are capturing in the correct aspect ratio and that your project is set for the correct aspect ratio.
 
I think there are many different skill levels of using the camera. We all start with automatic everything. Play with one setting at a time and see what it does.

Follow this link if you haven't seen it on "Getting the right image". http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=6721 There is a tutorial in there to help you start to get good images from the camera.

The version of Premiere you are using makes a big difference. Premiere Pro 1.5 does not handle 24P "normal" properly. Permiere Pro 2.0 seems to work well.

Premiere has this strange behavior that every time you render out a timeline, it adds the result back into the bins as if you are supposed to use it again. One thing that many people mistakenly do because of this is work for a while on a timeline/sequence and then render it out to an AVI to "lock in" the edits. Then they use that in a subsequent sequence. That's wrong. Every time you render out to a compressed AVI you have to re-compress the information, which causes quality loss. So when you use the rendered version in the subsequent timeline, its like using a photocopy of the original. There is generational loss. Instead, you can nest sequences. That means -- don't render the sequence out to an AVI. But drag the sequence from the bin area back into the new sequence. That way you divide up your work. But when you render out, you are still dealing with the original files that you captured and not with copies of copies of copies.

Also, stretching in Premiere is horrible. Get the right settings in premiere for capture and the output you are going for.
 
ProjX v2.0 said:
This is your problem. You should not have to do this. Stretching is a guaranteed method to make footage look like crap.

Double check your capture settings and make sure you are capturing in the correct aspect ratio and that your project is set for the correct aspect ratio.

But what is the correct full screen aspect ratio? It doesn't give you a preview of what the image looks like before you capture and I'm tired of trying this and trying that, I just want to know.​
 
andy_starbuck said:
I think there are many different skill levels of using the camera. We all start with automatic everything. Play with one setting at a time and see what it does.

Follow this link if you haven't seen it on "Getting the right image". http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=6721 There is a tutorial in there to help you start to get good images from the camera.

The version of Premiere you are using makes a big difference. Premiere Pro 1.5 does not handle 24P "normal" properly. Permiere Pro 2.0 seems to work well.

Premiere has this strange behavior that every time you render out a timeline, it adds the result back into the bins as if you are supposed to use it again. One thing that many people mistakenly do because of this is work for a while on a timeline/sequence and then render it out to an AVI to "lock in" the edits. Then they use that in a subsequent sequence. That's wrong. Every time you render out to a compressed AVI you have to re-compress the information, which causes quality loss. So when you use the rendered version in the subsequent timeline, its like using a photocopy of the original. There is generational loss. Instead, you can nest sequences. That means -- don't render the sequence out to an AVI. But drag the sequence from the bin area back into the new sequence. That way you divide up your work. But when you render out, you are still dealing with the original files that you captured and not with copies of copies of copies.

Also, stretching in Premiere is horrible. Get the right settings in premiere for capture and the output you are going for.

Even though you confused the HELL out of me with the rendering bizz, I might figure it out when I get into the editor again. I edit on Premiere Pro. And This whole thread is about me getting fed up with choosing the wrong settings for import and export..so if you knew the correct settings for full screen capture without me having to streatch the image to get it right, that'd be great.​
 
First, check the raw footage that you captured. When you play it in an outside player does it display full size (720x480)?

Everyone here is correct when they say that importing the video into Premiere does nothing to your footage. The program is only storing the file for future use, and it the ONLY thing that it does is conform your audio so that it can read it later. This does NOTHING to the quality of your footage.

I think you need to check the preview window and make sure that the view setting is set to either "Fit" or "100%." If you have preview set to 75% or something like that then the imported video will SEEM to be smaller, but you are really editing at full resolution.

You keep asking for a way to export without losing "any quality," and the answer is already there by Edweirdo in the first reply: export UNCOMPRESSED. The option is there so that if you want to do further editing: compositing, CC work etc. you can work with uncompressed footage. But in the end, the only practical means of exporting your footage and distribute it is by compressing it in some way. I personally use MPEG-2 DVD option in Premiere Pro or the Microsoft Avi option and I've been happy with the results. Know that when you compress it out you WILL lose "quality," technically speaking. But if your eyes can't tell the difference made by those few bytes of missing data, then why would you even care?

My advice is this: check your preview window and render your video out as few times as possible, ALWAYS try to edit on your original footage instead of compressed rendered video. If you want to look for a 3rd party plug in to do your export for you then I recommend Canopus Procoder 2. But in my opinion Premiere Pro already has some decent compression scheme (MPEG2DVD or Microsoft AVI) so just try to use those.
 
jade8472 said:
First, check the raw footage that you captured. When you play it in an outside player does it display full size (720x480)?

Everyone here is correct when they say that importing the video into Premiere does nothing to your footage. The program is only storing the file for future use, and it the ONLY thing that it does is conform your audio so that it can read it later. This does NOTHING to the quality of your footage.

I think you need to check the preview window and make sure that the view setting is set to either "Fit" or "100%." If you have preview set to 75% or something like that then the imported video will SEEM to be smaller, but you are really editing at full resolution.

You keep asking for a way to export without losing "any quality," and the answer is already there by Edweirdo in the first reply: export UNCOMPRESSED. The option is there so that if you want to do further editing: compositing, CC work etc. you can work with uncompressed footage. But in the end, the only practical means of exporting your footage and distribute it is by compressing it in some way. I personally use MPEG-2 DVD option in Premiere Pro or the Microsoft Avi option and I've been happy with the results. Know that when you compress it out you WILL lose "quality," technically speaking. But if your eyes can't tell the difference made by those few bytes of missing data, then why would you even care?

My advice is this: check your preview window and render your video out as few times as possible, ALWAYS try to edit on your original footage instead of compressed rendered video. If you want to look for a 3rd party plug in to do your export for you then I recommend Canopus Procoder 2. But in my opinion Premiere Pro already has some decent compression scheme (MPEG2DVD or Microsoft AVI) so just try to use those.

Thank you VERY MUCH. And yes, I know that I'm importing my footage very small because the preview window says "fit" and it only fills in a little square into all that black. And I'm not good enough with editors to know what option to choose to give me full screen when I capture. Because it doesn't show you a preview (Which is VERY stupid but probably intentional for the product upgrade). And no one's told me how to do that yet. So In a sense, if I don't know how to import full screen and I lose quality by stretching, then I DO lose quality in the import.​
 
Strange, if you capture SD footage then Premiere WILL allow you to preview the footage full sized as it is being captured. This is true for all versions, even the older 6.5. In my experience, the only time it doesn't let you do a capture preview is when you're capturing HD footage. I don't think you can even turn preview off if you want to.

You haven't told me whether your footage display full sized when you open them using an outside player (Window Media, VLC et.). If they aren't full sized then the problem is definitely in the way you're capturing footage from the camera.

If you're using a firewire then Premiere should automatically detect your video setting and usually the default setting is good. If not go into Capture Setting, Edit, then make sure that the capture resolution is 720x480. Premiere will import your footage for editing as it, so if you're capturing low res footage it'll give you low res footage.

If this turns out to be a software issue and there's something wrong with your copy of Premiere, then use another program to capture. Window Movie Maker will also capture through firewire. Try using WMM and then import those footage into Premiere, see if it's still small.
 
jade8472 said:
Strange, if you capture SD footage then Premiere WILL allow you to preview the footage full sized as it is being captured. This is true for all versions, even the older 6.5. In my experience, the only time it doesn't let you do a capture preview is when you're capturing HD footage. I don't think you can even turn preview off if you want to.

You haven't told me whether your footage display full sized when you open them using an outside player (Window Media, VLC et.). If they aren't full sized then the problem is definitely in the way you're capturing footage from the camera.

If you're using a firewire then Premiere should automatically detect your video setting and usually the default setting is good. If not go into Capture Setting, Edit, then make sure that the capture resolution is 720x480. Premiere will import your footage for editing as it, so if you're capturing low res footage it'll give you low res footage.

If this turns out to be a software issue and there's something wrong with your copy of Premiere, then use another program to capture. Window Movie Maker will also capture through firewire. Try using WMM and then import those footage into Premiere, see if it's still small.

What's SD?

And I heard (And witnessed) that WMM automatically turns ANYTHING IT TOUCHES into pur SH*T. Because it's a...basic, default type of program. So I try and not deal with it in any way. And I never have exported any one of my films without stretching it first, so I don't know how it would show when it plays if I were to edit it small...oh God...it seems, without being on my comp, no one can know what I'm talking about. I guess I'll retire and keep trying to cure these sh*tty images on my own.​
 
SD is Standard Definition, and in your case it means the footage is 720x480. Yes, Windows Movie Maker is a shitty program for editing, but for CAPTURING video it is as good as Premiere. I've used WMM in the past to capture video on to my laptop when I don't have Premiere handy and the footage came out just fine. Think of WMM as a cheap paper plate and Premiere as really good china. Will it hold food just as well as an expensive plate? Of course! Capture using WMM, edit in Premiere because it sounds like you have a software problem. If it's not the software, get a new firewire. Borrow someone elses computer and capture video on there. Isolate the problem.

And YES, you can tell when the RAW footage isn't captured correctly by opening them using an outside player after you finish capturing. If they're really as small as you say, then they'll pixelate like crazy when you go full screen.

No program will "automatically" turn your footage to sh*t, you gotta instruct it first.
 
I AM FED UP!!! Over a month after giving up on this thread because no one in it was able to assist me, MY VIDEOS ARE STILL COMING OUT LOOKING LIKE ****!! Why is this?! Ok, the capture is good. It's capturing great, I fixed that. But you know what I've found myself doing?

filming->capturing->editing->export to DV->Capture BACK to the comp JUST to have the edited film fully on my comp!

Because doing it that way looks better than ANY OPTION I can find on my comp, i think I've tried EVERY variation of MPEG, QT, WMV, AVI, and a TRILLION diff audios...

I don't get why you people can't help me! All of you people with your beautiful images, WHAT DO YU DO? Do you not tell me because you don't want comp in the world..I'm not getting it...
 
Can't someone just give him the exact menu sequence of settings you use for capture, editng and export? It would be so easy...my Premiere is on another hardrive (requiring reboot/same computer/no internet), or I'd do it right now...if that doesn't happen, I'll take the time to do just that.

Whitewood, if that doesn't bring joy, it's not that hard to just import/edit/export a short clip to see what you're doing wrong. Experiment, try things, learn! You can't depend on others to give you all the answers or you'll never get ahead, because in the rush of daily living, they don't always have the time to understand what you're asking.

But an exact sequence of what worked for someone else usually will solve the problem. I doubt seriously it's a Premiere problem, but just a settings problem.

Anyone?
 
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#1) The word "sh*t" does not communicate much about the results that you are getting, making it difficult to identify the source of the problem. A screen capture and some actual description of the problems you are noticing would help a lot. You began this thread by asking for recommendations about the best settings. If you want specific advice, please get specific about the problem and provide examples.

#2) You say the video is capturing just fine. First and foremost, you need to be using a DV codec and working exclusively in a DV codec like Microsoft DV. Many of the codecs are intended for low quality high compression output for use on the web or on a DVD or CD, and these "publishing" codecs are not suitable for use in editing.

#3) The timeline of the project in Premiere must match the format that the video was shot in.

#4) I've seen a lot of quality problems from Premiere when people "render out" their intermediate edits and re-import them. Premiere makes it easy for people to misunderstand editing workflow because it always adds the link to the rendered file back into the bins. A lot of people think that you are supposed to "lock in" your edits on a sequence by rendering it out to disk, and then using that rendered copy of that part of the video in your edit. Don't do that! When you render out the video it goes through another compression. Every time you re-compress the video that way there is another generation in loss of quality. If you do that seven times, then the seventh time you use it in a sequence it will be seven generation video and look horrible. Plus if you mix it with other video of different generations then the quality will jump around. The correct way to use this program is to embed sequences into other sequences, not to render out and embed the newly rendered clip in other sequences.

#5) If you are misusing Premiere by rendering the video out and using the rendered clips instead of rendering only the whole project at completion, and especially if you are rendering clips out using publishing codecs instead of editing codecs, then you are going to get really ugly results from Premiere. In my experience these are the two most common errors that turn good footage into useless crud. Of course maybe you are doing something completely different. Without any other information all I can do is take pot shots at the problem.
 
Tutorial to help you sort out the quality issues... as requested.

Tutorial to help you sort out the quality issues... as requested.

Simple Example of using Premiere Pro 2.0

The purpose of this tutorial is to take someone through a minimal edit to help identify the source of quality loss in a workflow using an NTSC version DVX camera and Adobe Premiere 2.0. One of the main ideas is to break up the process into smaller steps and verify the quality along the way to isolate the source of a quality issue. The second idea is that you should *never* render out "Export" a movie and then use that exported movie in subsequent edits. You should use nested sequences instead.

There are 17 steps in this tutorial, divided into two posts.

1) RECORD VIDEO
Record some video on the DVX in the F1 scene file setting.
a) Verify that you are recording at 29.97 fps and not in 24p or 24pA mode.
b) Make sure that you are recording in 4:3 aspect ratio and not in letterbox or squeeze mode.
c) Make sure that you are recording the audio in 48Khz (standard quality) and not in 32Khz mode.

You will only need a few seconds of video for this test.

2) VERIFY QUALITY OF RECORDING.
Verify that you have captured good looking video by playing it back on the video camera. If the image doesn't look good,
refer to the tutorial under "Getting the Right Image" (see the sticky at the top of the DVX100>Technical forum).

3) PREPARE TO CAPTURE.
Connect the camera to the computer in the following way:
a) Rewind the video tape.
b) Turn off the camera.
c) With the camera off, connect the Firewire to the camera and the computer.
d) Turn the camera on and allow Windows to find the computer and install it. Windows will probably ask what action you want to take. At this time choose "no action". You will launch the application separately.

4) Launch Premiere.

5) CREATE PROJECT.
When Premiere loads you need to create a project. Select [New Project].

6) There are six categories of preset. You must select the correct category of preset and create a new project file at your chosen location on your computer.
6a) The correct preset for the footage you shot is [DV-NTSC]->[Standard 48Khz]"

SDI stands for serial digital interface. This is a broadcast quality professional interface used for capturing uncompressed component signals and requires a special SDI interface card. "Adobe HD-SDI" is used for High Definition video, and "Adobe SD-SDI" is used for Standard Definition video. Since you will be capturing using Firewire, and not through a special SDI interface, you will not be using these presets. The rest of the presets are used to capture various kinds of video over firewire. "Adobe HDV" is used for most high definition cameras from Sony, Canon, and JVC. It is not used with Panasonic cameras like the HVX200, which use a different compression technology called DVCPROHD. You are catpuring from a DVX100 series camera, which is a standard definition camera, so you on't be using the "Adobe HDV" preset. The "DV-PAL", "DV-NTSC", and "DV-24P" are used with standard definition cameras. The "DV-PAL" refers to Pal-model DVX cameras that are common in Europe. In the U.S., the video standard is NTSC. Both the DV-NTSC and the DV-24P are used with the NTSC model of the DVX camera. The "DV-NTSC" preset is used with 29.97 frame per second video (standard video), and the "DV-24P' preset is used with video shot in the 24 frame per second ("film camera") mode. The "DV-24P" will cause Premiere to remove the extra frames inserted by the camera (the "pulldown") to reduce the number of frames from 29.97 fps to 23.98 fps.

Under the "DV-NTSC" Folder there are four presets: "Standard 32Khz", "Standard 48Khz", "Widescreen 32Khz", and "Widescreen 48Khz". The 32Khz refers to "low quality audio" and the 48Khz refers to "standard quality audio". For this test (and for most purposes) you will want standard quality audio, so you will only be using the 48Khz presets.

The remaining choice is between Standard (4:3 aspect ratio, regular TV shape) and Widescreen (16:9 aspect ratio, HDTV shape). The Widescreen mode is only used with video that has been recorded on the DVX in squeeze mode. For video that has been recorded either in "normal" or in "letterbox" mode. For this test you will want to select the "Standard 48Khz" preset.

Never use a Widescreen project with video shot in "normal" or "letterbox" mode. And never use a Standard project for video shot in "squeeze" mode. The reason is that the algorithms that are used in most non-linear editing (NLE) programs are notoriously bad at resizing and reshaping the video. If it is a simple change of pixel aspect ratio, you are usually okay. But if the program has to inerpolate between the pixels to perform the resize, there is usually a quality loss. Also, I've seen some NLEs screw up the field order and interlacing when resizing video, resulting in ugly artifacts. If you have to resize video, for example, taking video shot in Widescreen and shrinking it down to Letterbox for use in a 4:3 "Standard 48Khz" project, you are usually much better taking the video to a program like Adobe After Effects which has sophisticated algorithms for modifying the size of the video.

7) VERIFY PROJECT SETTINGS.

By choosing the preset category, you are making a choice between a) Firewire interface or SDI interface, b) Standard Definition and High Definition, c) PAL standard and NTSC standard, and d) 29.97 frames per second and 23.98 frames per second. All of these decisions are made with a single click by selecting the folder that contains the preset. Then by choosing the preset, you are selecting between e) 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio, and f) normal or low sound quality. Six choices with only two clicks.

When you select "DV-NTSC"->"Standard 48Khz" you should verify the following settings under description and settings. If these settings don't match it could result in a quality problem. Verify that the Frame size is 720x480 and that the Compressor is DV NTSC.

For editing with IEEE1394 (FireWire/i.LINK) DV equipment. Standard NTSC video (4:3 interlaced). 48kHz (16 bit) audio. Drop-Frame Timecode numbering.

General
Editing mode: DV NTSC
Timebase: 29.97 fps

Video Settings
Frame size: 720h 480v (0.900)
Frame rate: 29.97 frames/second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV NTSC (0.9)
Fields: Lower Field First

Audio Settings
Sample rate: 48000 samples/second

Capture Format
DV Capture

Video Rendering
Maximum Bit Depth: Off
Preview File Format: DV NTSC
Compressor: DV NTSC
Color depth: Millions of colors

Default Sequence
Total video tracks: 3


At the top there is a "Custom Settings" tab. You should not have to use that tab at this point. You should just be using the "Load Preset" tab. It is possible to create all kinds of weird custom presets, and you should not be doing that at this time.

8) Enter a name for the project and click the [Okay] button.


9) Now you are ready to capture the video.
a) Select "File"->"Capture". This should open the capture pop-up window.
b) Check the "[x]scene file detect" box and click the [Tape] button. Capture begins.

Scene file detect causes Premiere to recognize every break on the tape when the record/stop button was pressed, and to place each video clip into a separate video file. The "Tape" button tells Premiere to rewind the tape to the beginning and capture all the video on the tape.

There are more sophisticated ways to capture video, including naming and logging and using time code. But for this simple test, this is the easiest way to capture the few seconds of video you've shot.

Tutorial continues in subsequent post...
 
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