General Pay rate per hour
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Take your day rate and divide by two, and that should be the minimum. Work up from there.
Regardless of the time shooting (which could be 5 minutes or 3 hours) I never work for less than a 'half-day' rate, because by the time you got your kit ready, travelled to the shoot, did the shoot and came home again it's going to be at least half a day gone. Once things go over half a day then it's a day rate.
Regardless of the time shooting (which could be 5 minutes or 3 hours) I never work for less than a 'half-day' rate, because by the time you got your kit ready, travelled to the shoot, did the shoot and came home again it's going to be at least half a day gone. Once things go over half a day then it's a day rate.
saneproductions
Veteran
Gear is always at full day rate (typically rents for about 1/10th purchase price per day plus possibly production insurance fee in top (up to 20% of gear day rate at some places))
Labor is full days or half days (half days are 60% full day rate for labor plus full day of gear)
You should also add a project management fee to each job to cover client correspondence, hiring crew etc. Days are also typically portal to portal from your place of business (or a the closest major city you are working in if you live in the Styx and have no office). The gist is you need to charge for loading your gear into the car, travel and unload too.
Labor is full days or half days (half days are 60% full day rate for labor plus full day of gear)
You should also add a project management fee to each job to cover client correspondence, hiring crew etc. Days are also typically portal to portal from your place of business (or a the closest major city you are working in if you live in the Styx and have no office). The gist is you need to charge for loading your gear into the car, travel and unload too.
MarcRoberts
Member
I tend to use a weird approach.. Since I have so many different types of client with vastly different budgets I take a "as much money as I can reasonably get" stance. I like to make the potential client state first what they have budgeted for certain jobs. Once I know what ballpark they are in I quote from there. Some clients I will quote an hourly rate, a day or half day rate, a turnkey price etc. In other words, I have my day rate, but depending on the client I may just quote it like I see it.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
Not weird at all. That's called working with your client. What ever the budget is, take the project, get the client.
I've always asked my clients big or small one straight question up front, "What's your budget"? They always tell me.
+1
If someone tells you all they have is $300 and you need that money and can deliver the project in 2-3 days, then take the job and get that client. Sure you should get about 2-3x that much but it's tough times right now in this economy and you have to get what you can sometimes. Now you need to get paid at least a couple of hundred dollars but you know what I'm saying.
I completely agree provided this doesn't become the normal way of getting work.
The problem is that there are more and more people willing to undercut each other just to get the business and that the market rate is going down all the time. I walk away from business where people don't have the budget to cover reasonable pay and equipment, and I did it again only yesterday. B&H never feels sorry for me when I want some new gear but don't have the budget to cover the price they are asking
The tax man certainly never feels sorry ....If you have no work then undercutting the market can be a very valid way of getting in to the market, and in to 'new' clients, but perpetually undercutting where the price needs to be is simply a downward spiral. If you always meet your client's first budget offer, next time some of them will claim to have less budget than last time to see if they can push you down further and further. At some point you have to walk away because it's not worth it.
This video kinda sums it up....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY&feature=player_embedded
I completely agree provided this doesn't become the normal way of getting work.
The problem is that there are more and more people willing to undercut each other just to get the business and that the market rate is going down all the time. I walk away from business where people don't have the budget to cover reasonable pay and equipment, and I did it again only yesterday. B&H never feels sorry for me when I want some new gear but don't have the budget to cover the price they are asking
If you have no work then undercutting the market can be a very valid way of getting in to the market, and in to 'new' clients, but perpetually undercutting where the price needs to be is simply a downward spiral. If you always meet your client's first budget offer, next time some of them will claim to have less budget than last time to see if they can push you down further and further. At some point you have to walk away because it's not worth it.
This video kinda sums it up....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY&feature=player_embedded
100% agree BUT, this is just another reason why I have just been using a Dslr and cheap kit lenses to get the job done. Buy from China and stretch your money, because the client sometimes does not understand our costs.
You can easily spend $50 alone on hard drive space, so we just need to find a way to make more money while making the client understand. I had a client who said their budget was only $400 for a simple video, I convinced him to cough up another $100 and when I was done he even gave me a tip since he was so happy the way the project turned out.
Ultimately just like in life it has always been about $$. If someone is doing a project for $1000 and I can do it for less then usually I will get the job. It's a Dog eat Dog world we live in and this is the way things are.
This was a good read.
There is always someone willing to undercut you.
Asking a client/customer 'whats your budget' is necessary.
1. If they are lo-ballers, you can bet the rest of the relationship, they will be looking for freebies and add-ons.
2. If they come just under your bottom line, you may say "add $100 and we have a deal".
Naming your fee up front is like shooting in the dark sometimes.
There is always someone willing to undercut you.
Asking a client/customer 'whats your budget' is necessary.
1. If they are lo-ballers, you can bet the rest of the relationship, they will be looking for freebies and add-ons.
2. If they come just under your bottom line, you may say "add $100 and we have a deal".
Naming your fee up front is like shooting in the dark sometimes.
WhiteMonkey
Well-known member
Get your money upfront is all I can say. The last idiot I worked for, a television station owner, would negotiate a fee, then run overtime unwilling to pay more. Then he started trying to renegotiate the fee after the work was done offering to pay 75% or less. I took what I would get for the first two shoots and then ran like hell. He also lied alot, saying things like "I can get that edited for free at the station." I told him great, then you won't need to negotiate a fee for that work with me. Once I was done with him and stopped taking his calls, he latched onto a friend of mine and tried to pull the same shenanigans with him. We're both fed up.
I went back to shooting short films, something I've been doing all year now since I got my 7D. There's no money in it for me now, but I'm getting to do what I love.
I went back to shooting short films, something I've been doing all year now since I got my 7D. There's no money in it for me now, but I'm getting to do what I love.
All great advice. If I can just add in I have had experiences with the worst of them. Guarantee though if you play the lowball game you'll be doing that endlessly even if they say there will be more money in it for later projects. You will be cutting yourself short on potential earnings.
I would say work with the client on budget but realize that a client will (especially a producer) will tell you they have less of a budget because they are trying to make a profit. So if they say they only have 1000.00 they might actually have 1500.00 to spend.
Not that I look for work on this CL but I know some newbies do this is a note of caution:
Craigslist has to have the worst of the low ballers out there!!! No joke. Don't believe me go and look for what they are trying to get away with. You can literally work at a fast food restaurant and make more.
I would say work with the client on budget but realize that a client will (especially a producer) will tell you they have less of a budget because they are trying to make a profit. So if they say they only have 1000.00 they might actually have 1500.00 to spend.
Not that I look for work on this CL but I know some newbies do this is a note of caution:
Craigslist has to have the worst of the low ballers out there!!! No joke. Don't believe me go and look for what they are trying to get away with. You can literally work at a fast food restaurant and make more.
What I tend to do is give them choices. I say "for this amount, you get this..." and "for that amount you get that...".
Then I explain and show them what those different choices look like.
Guess what? They almost always go for the more expensive one.
Which is what I was going to give them in the first place.
Then I explain and show them what those different choices look like.
Guess what? They almost always go for the more expensive one.
Which is what I was going to give them in the first place.
