Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

Kholi said:
Wow. I just got out of the emergency room after being pretty much dead for a few days and this thread is STILL ongoing?

Give it a rest already.

All this stress over an inanimate object is ridiculous.
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you what?
 
John Caballero said:
What happened to you? You know that I thought today something may have happened to Kholi because he hasn't been around for a while. You OK? You had the "flu"?
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Honestly, it was major stress again. A direct effect of being too worried about the wrong things, all this GH-1/MKii crap and some other stuff mixed in PLUS a poor set-based diet: bunch'a Coca Cola and Crap Food that nobody should be consuming heavy amounts of.

Arguing about cameras, dreaming about cameras (literally), trying to figure out which camera to shoot the feature with, stuff that just does not matter getting the best of me and you can see it by just how many posts I've made on the topic in the last month. I could barely even think about visiting the forums up until an hour or so ago without getting nauseated, and my MKii and glass has been shunned to the closet. The thought of it's making me sick right now.

Add to that, Neglecting other responsibilities (feature included) and not paying attention to the same loved ones that have now been bed-side with me since I started going into pain.

None of this mixes well for mental, physical and emotional health and unfortunately it caught up with me again. I'm not gonna stop feeding my brain DVXuser/Filmmaker's conversation, but I'm gonna go hang around the USER FILMS sections etc, where there isn't nearly as much strife about the tools versus the actual craft.

Sometimes it just goes overboard, man.

Anyway, do what you guys gotta do.
 
Man, Kholi, I am sorry to hear that but you have to take care of yourself first and I hope you feel better. I've gotten to the conclusion that this camera stuff should be for your own concern, forget about the others and whats in their mind. Do your work and do it with passion, because you love it and with the tools you choose for yourself. And you will do very well for yourself by yourself. No matter how young you are you have to eat well and rest properly. That crap food is bad for you too. We are lucky because what we do for a living can be fun if we let it be. You gave us the start with the GH1 and we are thankful for your contribution. Get together with your close ones and take care of yourself. Everything will be alright. Be well.
 
Yeah, staying out of forums in general is a good way to lower stress. I need to take a break from time to time otherwise I start to stress out as well. Best of luck to you Kholi.
 
well, we were trying to know if the mud is due to a panasonic bug, but it seems the avc encoder is crippled by panasonic to protect their video cams, this is, the encoder does not use b-frames and the data rate seems to be carefully selected to ruin the images enough to not pass pro quality requirements. And of course, when the image changes quick enough then the thing breaks completely and mud appears.

it is not only the bitrate, its the lack of b-frames plus the bitrate. All AVCHD video cams even old panasonics use a better AVC encoder, with B frames , giving more image quality and mud-free panings.

Even the point&shot photo cam panasonic TZ7 uses a better AVC encoder scheme than GH1, using I frames every 13 P frames, while the GH1 at 720p usess I frames every 26 P frames. Well this use of small gop can be due to the TZ7 recording only 25p cause it uses the same bitrate, 17mbps, anyway the AVC encoder quality of this P&S PHOTO camera is lot better than the GH1.
 
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Well, I am going to say my last bit on the subject. If you really want and can afford the GH1 get it. If you complain about the bit rate, jello, crippled codec, mud, etc., etc., then simply don't get it. Is that simple. We are all grown ups and should know what decisions to make and to live with them. As far as I am concerned I can't wait to get my GH1, mud or not I will have fun with it first and second I am gonna make a lot of money with it as well. Thanks Panasonic, you are on the right track.
 
Dude take it easy. I have to say watching MKII footage over the last few days has helped me sleep better and lowered my feature planning stress levels (and the arrival of the first nikon to eos adapter ring). Sit back relax eat some lentil soup and enjoy, it's jello rich and mud free-

http://vimeo.com/groups/8432/videos/5055585
http://vimeo.com/groups/8432/videos/4970144
http://vimeo.com/groups/canon5dmarkii/videos/4823775
http://vimeo.com/groups/canon5dmarkii/videos/4750555
http://vimeo.com/3449805
http://vimeo.com/3155182
http://vimeo.com/groups/canon5dmarkii/videos/4145939

one or two might have been on dan's list.
 
John Caballero said:
Well, I am going to say my last bit on the subject. If you really want and can afford the GH1 get it. If you complain about the bit rate, jello, crippled codec, mud, etc., etc., then simply don't get it. Is that simple. We are all grown ups and should know what decisions to make and to live with them. As far as I am concerned I can't wait to get my GH1, mud or not I will have fun with it first and second I am gonna make a lot of money with it as well. Thanks Panasonic, you are on the right track.
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yeah man...just like me. I was one of the lucky ones to get this camera on Friday...shooting since then and testing it to the max. Yeah I am incredibly dissapointed...but I keep on shooting and hoping for a work around. to all or any issues I keep on discovering..if I find it, I will post it.

To live in the bleeding edge has its price...
 
Kholi, get yourself well and strong, you'll need to for your feature. Thanks for giving us all a better insight into this camera to make our decisions easier, or harder, as the case may be.
 
Damn, I hate to contribute to stress levels, but the GH1 is still a great camera. Buyers be happy.

- Much less jello than competition especially in 720p mode
- 720p MJPEG quality is right up there with 5DM2 at half the price
- 1080 24p mode is there for the future when Panasonic fix it, or for static shots
- Great range of lenses with adapters
- Better manual control, live view, EVF, more auto control than competition
- Great stills
- Small size and low weight
- Great kit lens
- No mud at night. I managed to shoot a whole short ambient piece at a night market on a fluid head pan Velbon the other day without encountering the problem in 1080 24p. Lots of dark static shots and a few occasional slow pans.

The GH1 has fantastic potential, that potential is already fully realised in MJPEG mode and I am sure Panasonic recognise the problem with the codec firmware and will fix it.

Hooray!

stephenvv said:
Again, I never said fast pans were a problem - but medium speed pans (like the footage CS posted) are the problem. But when you do fast or whip pans, you usually shoot slower shutter speed/angle.
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But I agree with this... pretty factual. The dark side of the GH1 is as well documented as it's pros.

Warning: if you are sensitive to stress caused by mud, look away now!! For all it's plus points above even a 90 year old guy can outrun the GH1 :)

http://www.vimeo.com/5072139

Pulldown removed this time. Cheers to Boz for fixing my previous clip. Tardy on my part... was in a rush that day.

EDIT: the mud isn't as visible on Vimeo as it is from the full HD Quicktime on my Mac... it is a much more minor occurrence here, which goes to show that certain sources can hide the mud effect, especially the PS3, playback on a quality plasma or viewing it small on Vimeo.
 
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Two questions:

1) How do the greens hold up in 720p mode?

2) Why does even most of the fairly static 1080 footage look pixelated? It looks a bit different than the mud... it just looks... pixelated I guess. Any way around this?

Commanderspike? What brand and class cards are you using (when you get problems)?


Kholi man, take some time away from the computer. Go out and go for a run maybe. Just enjoy the air. We all really appreciate what you have done. No need to stress yourself. Stay away from these topics.
 
Be well, Kholi. You are quite a remarkable contributor and I'm sure there are countless people here who have benefited from your insight and advice.

All of those that buy the GH1, good luck shooting something cool with it. I'm hoping that the combo of GH1 and HVX is going to get me through for the short I'm planning. I'm pretty sure it will. Regardless of mud, these (as has been mentioned many times already) are exciting times...In the next little while our options for creative film making are going to explode. I can't wait to see what's just around the corner.

Cheers,
Sam.

P.S. Kholi, I should send you some hard-core "Genki" drinks from Japan....although stimulants are probably NOT what you require right now.
 
the pal version has better compression from the ntsc at 1920?
is this correct? because of the difference of 50i 60i (more frames for the ntsc model at the same bitrate)
is this correct?
the pal model also shows mud?
 
commanderspike said:
- No mud at night. I managed to shoot a whole short ambient piece at a night market on a fluid head pan Velbon the other day without encountering the problem in 1080 24p. Lots of dark static shots and a few occasional slow pans.
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That's great to hear. Tell me more. My feature is mostly shot at night.
 
akaloith said:
the pal version has better compression from the ntsc at 1920?
is this correct? because of the difference of 50i 60i (more frames for the ntsc model at the same bitrate)
is this correct?
the pal model also shows mud?
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No, No, No, No and yes.

You really have to go back and read the numerous information we have on this.
 
Commanderspike, it would be real cool to see some of that video at night you are talking about....at your convenience of course.
 
If the GH1 has virtually no "mud" during pans at night that tells you that there must be some camera setting problems for daylight at play.

Commanderspike, it would be real cool to see some of that video at night you are talking about....at your convenience of course.
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Its in Vimeo. Click his other video and is there.
 
John Caballero said:
If the GH1 has virtually no "mud" during pans at night that tells you that there must be some camera setting problems for daylight at play.
...
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not necessarily - it could very likely have to do with detail level

At night you're going to see nothing in the far background or lights and no matter how many lights there are it will not compare to every leaf on several trees or every tree on a mountain which are the examples Commander has been showing us - the absolute worse case scenarios - greenery in a scenic background will be the worst.

It's either a detail thing or possibly a combination of detail and settings - my guess.
 
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