With what credible evidence can you say this?
Panasonic's new version of HPX300
- Thread starter photojournalist
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With what credible evidence can you say this?
You missed the centrality of my comment, which is that technology may not have indeed marched on but held back, marching in place per Panasonic's product release strategy. In this day and age, a newer version of a product can mean one of several things: that indeed there has been a significant technological development, or that technology has been held back to be released incrementally in order to perpetuate an artificial product cycle. The latter is what I suspect Panasonic is doing. That certainly is is their prerogative, but it can backfire especially in the economic environment that we now operate our business's in. There's an economic term called "time preference"- in a recession/depression like this one, time preference is not working to the favor of companies who employ product release strategies such as what Panasonic appears to be using with the rumored 370, 375 ....or whatever it may or may not be called. It may get some hold outs off of the fence, but it won't endear previous purchasers to the company or to purchase another upgrade.
Technology marches on sometimes, but sometimes it's just the marketing that marches on. As for the comment that maybe "this isn't the industry for you"....oops, I guess I'm in trouble, I've been shooting for twenty + years.... too late now.
I do shoot for networks, and I bought the 300 for one network client in particular.
When I make an equipment purchase I look at the ROI, not just for the period of time required to pay it off, but over a longer term. That is where the real profit is made. A piece of equipments viable life span is determined by many factors to be sure, but it is often judged by the context of what other options exist, and how soon a particular model is eclipsed and whether the successor is truly a step forward or just a marketing step forward. Maybe for your business sector that is a reduced consideration, but it can be a significant consideration for others. So indeed, a 370 could matter to my clients regardless of how well the 300 may satisfy them for the time being. While a competitors offering may eclipse my 300, I'd prefer that Panasonic not eclipse their own product in short order with a sensor that likely could have been included on the 300.
Ultimately, I'm a bit confused. Why bother refuting my (and others) concerns and then go on to state that an upgrade from Panasonic would be nice and that you hope they consider it?
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No one has talked about form factor with this 'rumored' camera...so I thought I would chime in some more. 
I still don't think Panny is going to introduce a shoulder mount model that is in between the 300 and the 500 product lines. If I were a betting man, I would put money on an upgrade to the 500 or a handheld with a 200/170-like form factor with full raster 3MOS chips.
I still don't think Panny is going to introduce a shoulder mount model that is in between the 300 and the 500 product lines. If I were a betting man, I would put money on an upgrade to the 500 or a handheld with a 200/170-like form factor with full raster 3MOS chips.
mountainmedia
Well-known member
Unless the 370 uses the same body as the 300 - which is very possible. Then Panasonic could take the 300s back, refurbish them a bit, drop in the new tech and sell them as 370s (or even 370 b-stock)! Just a thought...
No one has talked about form factor with this 'rumored' camera...so I thought I would chime in some more.
I think this thread's original poster's hands-on experience and the commercial web sightings have made it pretty clear that there will be a 370 that is an updated & improved 300 - meaning same body. It is expected to be shipping by the end of April.
As for current owners complaining of the update, it seems kind of silly in this technology era. In a market as relentlessly competitive as the camera industry is, to accuse Panasonic of holding back its best technology for a year, trying to get you to buy twice, is total nonsense.
But I agree that if Panasonic is smart, they will make some accomodation to early buyers by way of generous trade-in allowance or reasonably-priced upgrade modification to their existing camera. Corporate goodwill and developing and maintaining customer loyalty have always been important considerations, especially these days when bad feelings and experiences travel fast on the forums of the world.
Panasonic are damned if they do and damned if the don't ...
People complain about the camera, it's noisy, it's got skew - Panasonic 'potentially' offer a new camera which could be better and they get stick for doing this too.
Come on, I purchased a HPX301 last week, and used it on a major corporate with jib. Not once was the skew or noise an issue.
I used it in conjunction with a RED One and a HPX171, it looked great with much more pop than the 171.
There is always a way out, if you want a good deal get a 301 now - there are some good prices, if you can't live with your camera because of the noise - sell it take a small hit and buy the new one. If you haven't got one then wait to what to see what they bring out.
There are always options in and out of these scenario. Stop whinging and do something about your problem.
People complain about the camera, it's noisy, it's got skew - Panasonic 'potentially' offer a new camera which could be better and they get stick for doing this too.
Come on, I purchased a HPX301 last week, and used it on a major corporate with jib. Not once was the skew or noise an issue.
I used it in conjunction with a RED One and a HPX171, it looked great with much more pop than the 171.
There is always a way out, if you want a good deal get a 301 now - there are some good prices, if you can't live with your camera because of the noise - sell it take a small hit and buy the new one. If you haven't got one then wait to what to see what they bring out.
There are always options in and out of these scenario. Stop whinging and do something about your problem.
mountainmedia
Well-known member
GaryNattrass
Veteran
Since I set up my cameras to BBC spec I have not had problems with noise and have also had feedback from other users who find the camera OK once set up right. I have even done night shoots with 6db of gain cranked in and as you can see there is not a lot of noise here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhVxHNRdz4
It actually says in the BBC report that the HPX301 is no worse than any other broadcast camera!
I think a lot of noise talk comes from the guys who do weddings and functions and think that if you crank in over 6db of gain that it will still work and not be noisy, cameras need light its a law of physics and in the old days even if you were using 400 asa film stock you would get grain!
It actually says in the BBC report that the HPX301 is no worse than any other broadcast camera!
I think a lot of noise talk comes from the guys who do weddings and functions and think that if you crank in over 6db of gain that it will still work and not be noisy, cameras need light its a law of physics and in the old days even if you were using 400 asa film stock you would get grain!
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Panasonic is one of the few companies that actually listens to its customers and makes improvements to their cameras based on user feedback.
They have no equal in this regard. Period.
They have no equal in this regard. Period.
LeftyLarry
Member
Excuse my skepticism, but has Panasonic (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) ever had a program of this nature? It's really hard for me to see how this would ever be implemented.
New car dealers come to mind.
I thnk they have. I Read it somewhere
Even if they weren't inclined to do something as extensive as a trade-in, continuing to develop firmware for the 300 would be a welcome gesture. I'd like to see Panasonic squeeze every last bit of potential out of the 300 platform.
On the consumer side, Panasonic makes the LX3 point and shoot camera. It's been out now for over two years, is wildly popular and Panasonic continues to develop firmware upgrades rather than introduce new versions of the camera every 10 months or so as is the norm in this market segment. The camera has real value and utility because of the ongoing commitment to bettering the product via firmware. I'd like to see more of this attitude on the Pro broadcast side of their business.
Barry_Green
Moderator
They have had a competitive upgrade program on some of their high-end models, where you trade in a competitor's camera and get a discount on a new camera. They did this for the HPX2700 and HPX3700. But they specifically excluded their own P2 models from the trade-in, so the answer is pretty much "no".
Barry_Green
Moderator
But that's very, very different. First, that is something done by the DEALER, not by the manufacturer. Second, new-car dealers are also used-car dealers, they sell used cars. So the trade-in program on a new car is that they give you a pittance on your old car and overcharge you on your new car, and therefore they are cheaply buying a used car to sell. So the business model is entirely different from the camcorder business model.
Now, a dealer like B&H could do what you're talking about, because they are both a new-camera dealer and a used-camera dealer.
Let’s face it. As consumers and early adopters we are at the mercy of the so-called beta testers, whose opinions and pontifications the buyer ultimately may or may not agree with. To that, one must add the inevitable marketing hype that precedes or accompanies a new release. With this in mind, it is the consumer who becomes the final arbiter of the product’s viability and it generally is at that point that a given device’s benefits or inadequacies come to light … so, we the consumers are the testers.
In summary: be skeptical of hype, regardless of the source, and avoid the urge to be the first on your block to have the newest toy. And like Mr. Green, I doubt that Santa will be delivering any trade-in certificates for unhappy consumers, unless it comes from a competitor.
In summary: be skeptical of hype, regardless of the source, and avoid the urge to be the first on your block to have the newest toy. And like Mr. Green, I doubt that Santa will be delivering any trade-in certificates for unhappy consumers, unless it comes from a competitor.
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I don't know if I share your view of beta testers.
No doubt some fit your stereotype, but my experience as one on many programs and some hardware is that most of us take our jobs seriously, without bias, objectively, and diligently.
But no internal or external beta program can identify all issues or prompt a fix of all deficiencies. That why there is support, and product revisions and firmware updates.
No doubt some fit your stereotype, but my experience as one on many programs and some hardware is that most of us take our jobs seriously, without bias, objectively, and diligently.
But no internal or external beta program can identify all issues or prompt a fix of all deficiencies. That why there is support, and product revisions and firmware updates.
That is indeed quite unfair. As a beta tester on numerous things myself, the idea of material gain is pretty much the last thing on my mind. And companies don't WANT you just blowing sunshine about the project. They want you do everything they can to break it in a real-world environment so they know where the weak spots are. They also want your feedback as to what would make the product work better. I've personally been able to improve a few things this way.
No company benefits from beta testers simply telling them their product is great. There would be no point to doing it at all.
No company benefits from beta testers simply telling them their product is great. There would be no point to doing it at all.