VaricamLT: Panasonic VariCam LT

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Sttratos said:
Nice chat. But to say Arri has a problem is a stretch. I doubt the Alexa has to worry about a Panasonic camera. The industry would never embrace it. They can't even embrace Sony. Arri has the industry cornered because they are Arri.
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"When I got an offer to do an Amazon pilot with the request–not the request, but the condition–that I only could shoot with a camera 4K or higher – I thought, Well that’s ridiculous. So I cannot use the ARRI Alexa which I used lately a lot for my features and TV pilots.”

Theo van de Sande, ASC on VariCam 35
 
Fun to watch to see what is possible. For me, much of that clip is overexposed. We tend to think of overexposure as clipped whites, but it also means brighter than it should be, and to me night has to look somewhat like night unless you are trying to make a psychological story point. The streets of Los Feliz aren't that bright to the eye (my neighborhood as well as the filmmakers, apparently). A more useful "test" than making a little short film with cute props for me is to take one of those setups and bracket exposure as well as EI (from the native 5000 down), then explore in the grade where the sweet spot is in terms of noise and overall feel. Is it better to stop down, or drop the EI which decreases noise (my tests with the Varicam tell me it's the latter)? Or is it better to overexpose like this and crush it down in the grade, so you can always open things back up with windows?

My favorite shots are the ones that actually feel like night, like at 1:53 looking up Rodney towards Franklin (told you it's my 'hood!). There's a nice range of tonality and it feels more like the eye sees.
 
dcloud said:
A7s is around 12 stops at 3200 and less when you go up.
varicam is 14+ at 5000iso.
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Based on what exactly? I've seen xyla charts online that show 14+ on the A7SII and I've seen other tests that show the varicam at iso5000 definitely has less DR than at iso800. I'm not saying you're wrong but DR numbers are thrown around to the point that they mean nothing (plus they often actually mean nothing without clarification of measurement methods and of the intended meaning of DR).
 
CharlesPapert said:
Fun to watch to see what is possible. For me, much of that clip is overexposed. We tend to think of overexposure as clipped whites, but it also means brighter than it should be, and to me night has to look somewhat like night unless you are trying to make a psychological story point. The streets of Los Feliz aren't that bright to the eye (my neighborhood as well as the filmmakers, apparently). A more useful "test" than making a little short film with cute props for me is to take one of those setups and bracket exposure as well as EI (from the native 5000 down), then explore in the grade where the sweet spot is in terms of noise and overall feel. Is it better to stop down, or drop the EI which decreases noise (my tests with the Varicam tell me it's the latter)? Or is it better to overexpose like this and crush it down in the grade, so you can always open things back up with windows?

My favorite shots are the ones that actually feel like night, like at 1:53 looking up Rodney towards Franklin (told you it's my 'hood!). There's a nice range of tonality and it feels more like the eye sees.
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I agree about the exposure. Guessing the author is trying to show its ability to expose at night period. A few shots that felt like night were great!
 
nyvz said:
Based on what exactly? I've seen xyla charts online that show 14+ on the A7SII and I've seen other tests that show the varicam at iso5000 definitely has less DR than at iso800. I'm not saying you're wrong but DR numbers are thrown around to the point that they mean nothing (plus they often actually mean nothing without clarification of measurement methods and of the intended meaning of DR).
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I dont have any fancy chart or tests. Ive just used both and based on my experience, thats what i perceived :)
 
filmguy123 said:
Can someone explain this to me:

Wondering the difference between a $2000 A7s that can shoot clean images @ 25,000 ISO VS Panasonics approach with a clean base ISO of 5000 that is useless again past 8K

Would seem Sony's approach is better on paper... Does the A7s have better lowlight than the VaricamLT??

This camera has a ton of people excited about this feature, so am I misunderstanding something?

All things being equal, how does Panasonics approach to ISO (dual base) differ from Sony's ultra high ISO settings that still remain clean? I think I am missing or misunderstanding something. Unless the dual base ISO isn't that exciting and Panasonic would have been just as well off keeping the base ISO at 800 but making it clean all the way about through 10k. That seems to be what I don't get. What's the benefit of a dual base ISO if the overall ceiling from clean useable ISO is still significantly lower than what Sony is doing on a tiny $2k camera?

Not talking about S35 vs FF low light here, strictly about ISO
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filmguy123 said:
Thanks! I get that point, but not what I am getting at.

Wondering the difference between a $2000 camera that can shoot clean images @ 25,000 ISO.

VS a camera with a clean base ISO of 5000 that is useless again past 8K

Would seem Sony's approach is better on paper...

BUT... this camera has a ton of people excited about the feature so I do think I am misunderstanding something.

All things being equal, how does Panasonics approach to ISO (dual base) differ from Sony's ultra high ISO settings that still remain clean? I think I am missing or misunderstanding something. Unless the dual base ISO isn't that exciting and Panasonic would have been just as well off keeping the base ISO at 800 but making it clean all the way about through 10k. That seems to be what I don't get. What's the benefit of a dual base ISO if the overall ceiling from clean useable ISO is still significantly lower than what Sony is doing on a tiny $2k camera?

Not talking about S35 vs FF low light here, strictly about ISO
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The a7s isn't all that clean past 3500 ISO in LOG.
Don't believe me, shoot a properly exposed Kodak gray card with the a7s in Slog. Import into Resolve and blow it up 400%, tell me what you see.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Fun to watch to see what is possible. For me, much of that clip is overexposed. We tend to think of overexposure as clipped whites, but it also means brighter than it should be, and to me night has to look somewhat like night unless you are trying to make a psychological story point.
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I feel the purpose of that video is to demonstrate how extremely well it can perform even at night. If it simply looked like every other night shot, then what is the point?? Of course it can do that too!!!
 
I'm really keen to see the camera used for some nighttime anamorphic shooting, you'd be able to actually stop down a bit and use the lenses at their sweet spot, at night, with the ambient light of the environment... that's something we've never really seen before, I think it's pretty damned exciting the possibilities these cameras open up.
 
I just want to see someone use this camera to shoot something that looks good.
Not a technical demo of weird ugly lighting. Or over exposed night scenes.
Just shoot something cool that shows how good and how filmic this can look. That showcases more than just scenic nature shots. People, motion, action, high contrast scenes, docu stuff. Where's philip bloom when ya need him?
 
filmguy123 said:
I just want to see someone use this camera to shoot something that looks good.
Not a technical demo of weird ugly lighting. Or over exposed night scenes.
Just shoot something cool that shows how good and how filmic this can look. That showcases more than just scenic nature shots. People, motion, action, high contrast scenes, docu stuff.
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Either go and rent one when they are available, or wait patiently for stuff that you term good. That kind of work takes time. And there is much to like in various parts of what others have graciously provided.


filmguy123 said:
Where's philip bloom when ya need him?
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He's in the Sony camp so don't hold your breath.
 
filmguy123 said:
I just want to see someone use this camera to shoot something that looks good.
Not a technical demo of weird ugly lighting. Or over exposed night scenes.
Just shoot something cool that shows how good and how filmic this can look. That showcases more than just scenic nature shots. People, motion, action, high contrast scenes, docu stuff. Where's philip bloom when ya need him?
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There are shows out there being shot on the Varicam 35, which has the same sensor.
 
i'll have some clips available for you guys shortly that are "technical" demos that I think are quite revealing. But they aren't entertaining. Tied up on an a job right now but hopefully this weekend I can get to it. Can I assume that it is worth it for you guys to have access to full rez files (ProRes4444 1080 and 4K AVC) even if they are 5 seconds long of a static scene than just a Vimeo clip? So you can put into your various hoppers for push/pull opportunities?
 
CharlesPapert said:
i'll have some clips available for you guys shortly that are "technical" demos that I think are quite revealing. But they aren't entertaining. Tied up on an a job right now but hopefully this weekend I can get to it. Can I assume that it is worth it for you guys to have access to full rez files (ProRes4444 1080 and 4K AVC) even if they are 5 seconds long of a static scene than just a Vimeo clip? So you can put into your various hoppers for push/pull opportunities?
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That'd be brilliant, thanks Charles.
 
CharlesPapert said:
i'll have some clips available for you guys shortly that are "technical" demos that I think are quite revealing. But they aren't entertaining. Tied up on an a job right now but hopefully this weekend I can get to it. Can I assume that it is worth it for you guys to have access to full rez files (ProRes4444 1080 and 4K AVC) even if they are 5 seconds long of a static scene than just a Vimeo clip? So you can put into your various hoppers for push/pull opportunities?
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Very generous of your time. Thank you.
 
CharlesPapert said:
i'll have some clips available for you guys shortly that are "technical" demos that I think are quite revealing. But they aren't entertaining. Tied up on an a job right now but hopefully this weekend I can get to it. Can I assume that it is worth it for you guys to have access to full rez files (ProRes4444 1080 and 4K AVC) even if they are 5 seconds long of a static scene than just a Vimeo clip? So you can put into your various hoppers for push/pull opportunities?
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That'd be super cool, I'm thinking of using the V35 on my next shoot and I'd love to see how it compares to the Alexa sensor.
 
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