GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

Even the GH2 sensor has the pixels to do a proper DCI recording.

Flat - 1998×1080 or 3996×2160
Scope - 2048×858 or 4096×1716
ya but even there you deliver lower resolution, which is why many shooters prefer anamorphic out of 16:9 or 4:3. With the GX8 sensor, GH5 should have the sufficient oversampling for a much more detailed 2.4.

I'd be happy with the above, minus 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording - this is because it would be likely to have serious overheating issues, and probably noise issues in the sensor...

Adam
Newer chip technology - going down to 14-16 nM from 20-22 - should have fewer heat issues. New batteries - and Panasonic is a major global battery manufacturer - should have more juice for a small fan.
 
A solid HDMI port.

and that! ;) - why can't anyone engineer a built in locking port for HDMI? HDMI and the extra time money and hassle it takes to find solutions to it's fundamental weakness are a PITA! Same goes for recorders such as the Shogun and standalone monitors (ok some of those like certain ruige models have built-in locks, but as everyone knows, this practice is far from the norm).

Adam
 
and that! ;) - why can't anyone engineer a built in locking port for HDMI? HDMI and the extra time money and hassle it takes to find solutions to it's fundamental weakness are a PITA! Same goes for recorders such as the Shogun and standalone monitors (ok some of those like certain ruige models have built-in locks, but as everyone knows, this practice is far from the norm).

Adam

all they really need to do is recess the hdmi port maybe a 1/4", thus the connector sheath takes the strain and not the connector
 
Newer chip technology - going down to 14-16 nM from 20-22 - should have fewer heat issues. New batteries - and Panasonic is a major global battery manufacturer - should have more juice for a small fan.

That's interesting! - I'd be keen to see how that could be implemented into the existing form factor without issues. Remember, On-board, 10 bit 4.2.2. Pro-Res HQ processing @ 4K is also likely to be factor as to weather or not this is possible in such a compact system.

I'm not saying it's impossible because I don't know, but it would sure be good to find out. I wonder if Atomos has the tech to successfully make a '4K Shogun Star' along the same lines as the 'Ninja Star' without overheating? Of course the sensor is taken out of this equation, but I can imagine that the heat issue is still not a trivial thing to solve.

Adam
 
all they really need to do is recess the hdmi port maybe a 1/4", thus the connector sheath takes the strain and not the connector

Exactly Darren, It ain't rocket science! - unless there is some kind of pact going on with third party accessory manufacturers (I'll break out my Tin-foil hat) :D

Adam
 
That's interesting! - I'd be keen to see how that could be implemented into the existing form factor without issues. Remember, On-board, 10 bit 4.2.2. Pro-Res HQ processing @ 4K is also likely to be factor as to weather or not this is possible in such a compact system.

I'm not saying it's impossible because I don't know, but it would sure be good to find out. I wonder if Atomos has the tech to successfully make a '4K Shogun Star' along the same lines as the 'Ninja Star' without overheating? Of course the sensor is taken out of this equation, but I can imagine that the heat issue is still not a trivial thing to solve.

Adam
Intel said (and, yes, I just Googled for this) back in 2013, when the 14 nM chips were still in the final stages of development, that they'd have a 30% better power management than their 22 nM based processors. How exactly that translates to the photo/video cameras - I have no idea. Mind you, these 14 nM chips only began to ship in numbers in the second quarter of 2015. Samsung and LG also have those (or similar) 14-16 nM processors. Qualcomm is not shipping their 14 nM Snapdragon 820 yet but they're going to be made at the Samsung fab anyway. In any case, by the spring 2016, 14-16 nM processors should be in every new smartphone ... and maybe camera too.

As to the batteries, that GigaFactory that Panasonic and Tesla are building in Nevada should begin a partial run by the end of 2016/early 2017. Musk said that it should drop the pricing to $150-$170/kWH from the current $300'ish (or 40%-50%) but there are a lot of big boys muscling onto that territory as well.
 
Do Panasonic have their own sensor technology they are working on or does everything trickle down from Sony?
 
ya but even there you deliver lower resolution, which is why many shooters prefer anamorphic out of 16:9 or 4:3. With the GX8 sensor, GH5 should have the sufficient oversampling for a much more detailed 2.4.

Newer chip technology - going down to 14-16 nM from 20-22 - should have fewer heat issues. New batteries - and Panasonic is a major global battery manufacturer - should have more juice for a small fan.

You kind of have to factor in the lower res vs softer optics of using an anamorphic adapter. Even very expensive anamorphic adapters introduce another layer of glass which can softer the image. Plus since adapted lenses are used for shooting anamorphic they tend to not be as sharp as some m43 glass. So the reality might be much closer than you think. Don't just think of resolution as the number of pixels on paper but the actual resolved accutance of the captured image. Glass plays a major factor in this. It could very well be that a lower resolution crop could end up resolving more detail than a full resolution anamorphic shot.

While anamorphic is a great option it wouldn't be so bad to just have a cropped version. Many of the Marvel moves were shot standard and cropped and that wasn't even with a 4k camera. In fact a lot of big budget Hollywood movies are in fact shot standard and just cropped. Since nobody on this forum is producing Avengers quality films I would tend to think cropping is still a very solid option. For example Guardians of the Galaxy was shot on the Alexxa XT with the open gate format which uses 3414 x 2198. All FX and editing was done from a 2.40:1 crop of that. Some shots used a bit more of the frame area for the iMax version of the film but most of the movie was a 2.40:1 crop from a smaller than 4k 4x3 sensor. I think they even took a a smaller window of the sensor on the sides so the VFX team had a bit of room to work with in post.

It is completely realistic to use the GH4 in the same way.
 
I'm hopeful that Panasonic sees the market advantages they are getting from brands like Metabones, Veydra, Atomos, etc., and continue to make products that are compatible with third party hardware. Historically, most manufacturers have shut out competing accessories by building obstacles to outside manufacturers. And when that doesn't work, they just buy the third party (see Andromeda and Hydra).
 
... It is completely realistic to use the GH4 in the same way.
Sure but, given the technological advancements in the recent years, an oversampled 4K in any aspect should be the most desired and the more oversampling the camera has the betterits image quality is deemed (subject to the jello effect). DVX200 has a 13 MPX 4K, A7RII 15 MPX, both in 16:9. The next generation should aim for more, much like Alexa65 aims for more than the original Alexa. There's a diminishing effect to color and resolution after the 17.8 and negligible after 26.4 (in 16:9) but the trend is toward more, up to and including 8K.

Do Panasonic have their own sensor technology they are working on or does everything trickle down from Sony?
Panasonic and Fuji have been working on their own organic sensor for several years but it seems that all of their latest camera sensors - the $65,000 Varicam s35 excluded - are sourced from Sony. That usually leaves Panasonic a generation behind in terms of sheer performance but, in return, allows them to pack more features into a given model. And that makes them a leader in the entry level 4K niche while other pick different corners to target.
 
Sure but, given the technological advancements in the recent years, an oversampled 4K in any aspect should be the most desired and the more oversampling the camera has the betterits image quality is deemed (subject to the jello effect). DVX200 has a 13 MPX 4K, A7RII 15 MPX, both in 16:9. The next generation should aim for more, much like Alexa65 aims for more than the original Alexa. There's a diminishing effect to color and resolution after the 17.8 and negligible after 26.4 (in 16:9) but the trend is toward more, up to and including 8K.

Panasonic and Fuji have been working on their own organic sensor for several years but it seems that all of their latest camera sensors - the $65,000 Varicam s35 excluded - are sourced from Sony. That usually leaves Panasonic a generation behind in terms of sheer performance but, in return, allows them to pack more features into a given model. And that makes them a leader in the entry level 4K niche while other pick different corners to target.

It already is over sampled. The Alexa is arguably one of the most beautiful cameras out there making some of the most vivid and beautiful movies and using the highest sensor portion (open gate) it gets only 3414 x 2198 from the 4x3 sensor. This is then cropped to something 5% smaller than that width for a size of roughly 3072x1280. I'm not sure the exact amount that was used on Guardians of the Galaxy but an article did mention they cropped in about 5% on each side to give the FX team a bit of wiggle room. Thats basically a 3k master for FX work. The Gh4 already without anything fancy can take 4096x2160 and crop to 4096x1716 for a true DCI scope 4k master that is a lot more over sampled than the Alexa.

If 3k was good enough for Guardians of the Galaxy I'm pretty sure 4096x1716 is good enough for every single person on this forum. 4096x1716 is already a lot of extra pixels.

Anamorphic was in reality a form of image compression and nothing more. It was a way to take the standard and try to make it look bigger. sort of like interlaced with video. It was a way to cram twice as much information into the same amount of space. Anamorphic made sense back in the day because they needed a way to use existing 35mm technology. Today we already have 4k camera systems much more detailed and the need for anamorphic is much less important than it once was. with 2k and under resolution anamorphic still made a bit of sense because the resolution wasn't as high. With 4k a lot of that has changed and the reality of our continued 2k delivery world is that anamorphic isn't as important as it once was. Of course it will always have a certain look to it but thats just for a look and there is little reason for the film community to cling onto anamorphic concepts. To this day even Hollywood continues to master and deliver at 2k so there is nothing wrong at all with just cropping a normal GH4 shot to 4096x1716.
 
My wishlist would be:
• IBIS
• V-log
• Global Shutter
• Better low light performance (AKA cleaner at higher ISO)
• Cleaner slow-mo at 1080p up to 120fps, 4k at 60p?
• Speed Booster compatible (just got one a month ago finally!)
 
My expectations for the GH5 is more restrained than most have stated here.

I fully expect recording formats/rates/color-space to be similar (if not the same) as the DVX-200. IMO, Pani would NEVER trump their new $4+K prosumer camera with a sub $2K DSLR. Just ain't gonna happen. My jaded sense of how Pani markets cameras also presumes it will come with an 'HDMI type D' (micro) connector.

I hope Pani surprises me and delivers more features than just a GH4 with upgraded sensor and DVX-200 recording formats:
A type C HDMI connector would be very appreciated for external recording
240 FPS in at least 720P with high data rates (maybe a wish)
Internal Pro-res recording (a crazy wish)
 
... If 3k was good enough for Guardians of the Galaxy I'm pretty sure 4096x1716 is good enough for every single person on this forum. 4096x1716 is already a lot of extra pixels. .
No disrespect but I really hate this argument. "Casablanca" was shot in B&W in 4:3 ... but "Lawrence of Arabia" wasn't. CGI laden features are, at this point, in 2K usually but that's due to the technological limitations. I guess one can make a decent film with 70D too but most folks with budgets will try for the better cameras. Looking back is counterproductive. Right now, Alexa65 is the model to aspire to. That's the direction the technology will go. "Casablanca" and 2K are in the rear view mirror. 4K is here and 8K is down the road. And there's not much else to it.

What about compressed raw? And maybe some way to get uncompressed raw to an external recorder.
I highly doubt it at this price range (under $2,000). 10-bit 4:2:2 via HDMI should be more than sufficient. Now, if Panasonic comes out with an s35 piece for around $5,000, then it might have Raw but it'll be a huge step for the company, as it would mean it's de facto abandoning the MFT format (Varicam, of course, is s35 but it's also priced at ~ $60,000. At some point, everything will migrate down but no one knows when)

My expectations for the GH5 is more restrained than most have stated here.

I fully expect recording formats/rates/color-space to be similar (if not the same) as the DVX-200. IMO, Pani would NEVER trump their new $4+K prosumer camera with a sub $2K DSLR. Just ain't gonna happen...
That's what I think too. IMO, they'll do the same internal recording as DVX200, with the same chip and the same 10-bit 4:2:2 to the external recorder via the HDMI. One hopes that external recorders will come down in price by then. Something like the Ninja 4K (ProRes HQ) for under $1,000 would make for a nice companion piece.
 
No disrespect but I really hate this argument. "Casablanca" was shot in B&W in 4:3 ... but "Lawrence of Arabia" wasn't. CGI laden features are, at this point, in 2K usually but that's due to the technological limitations. I guess one can make a decent film with 70D too but most folks with budgets will try for the better cameras. Looking back is counterproductive. Right now, Alexa65 is the model to aspire to. That's the direction the technology will go. "Casablanca" and 2K are in the rear view mirror. 4K is here and 8K is down the road. And there's not much else to it.

I highly doubt it at this price range (under $2,000). 10-bit 4:2:2 via HDMI should be more than sufficient. Now, if Panasonic comes out with an s35 piece for around $5,000, then it might have Raw but it'll be a huge step for the company, as it would mean it's de facto abandoning the MFT format (Varicam, of course, is s35 but it's also priced at ~ $60,000. At some point, everything will migrate down but no one knows when)

That's what I think too. IMO, they'll do the same internal recording as DVX200, with the same chip and the same 10-bit 4:2:2 to the external recorder via the HDMI. One hopes that external recorders will come down in price by then. Something like the Ninja 4K (ProRes HQ) for under $1,000 would make for a nice companion piece.

And I hate the argument that these tools are not good enough. Without a doubt the GH4 already has the needed resolution for 4k. Do you honestly think you can shoot a better looking movie than Guardians of the Galaxy? I'm not trying to say that getting the highest quality possible shouldn't always be a goal but that I think some people get too hung up on resolution when it is one of the least important factors of image quality. Especially when the optics of shooting anamorphic will likely due more to affect the overall detail of the image compared to limiting the resolution to 4096x1716 pixels which is still a lot. In fact its the full amount needed for perfect 4k DCI scope distribution.

My point was that by cropping the GH4 to DCI scope you are already working with a lot more resolution than what most Hollywood films are using. Going beyond 4096x1716 is not going to gain you a whole lot in terms of detail and in fact could potentially be softer depending on what lenses and anamorphic adapter are used.

Don't get hung up on resolution so much. Of course resolution is something to consider and I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all which is why I would never use a 70D but the GH4 is already very highly detailed and cropping to scope doesn't really lose anything. Especially when every single 4k delivery method on the planet will be 4096 wide. So even to future proof for 4k DCI scope delivery you are still golden. So for HD, 2k and 4k distribution you are able to deliver near perfect cinemascope results.
 
And I hate the argument that these tools are not good enough. Without a doubt the GH4 already has the needed resolution for 4k. Do you honestly think you can shoot a better looking movie than Guardians of the Galaxy? I'm not trying to say that getting the highest quality possible shouldn't always be a goal but that I think some people get too hung up on resolution when it is one of the least important factors of image quality...
Actually, I have long said that the quality of the "enthusiast" level cameras - i.e., slightly above Gh4 and more like A7RII - is already good enough to make a live action, rather than CGI laden, feature. But, with the gear and the related hardware prices coming down so quickly, a pro shooter will always seek a "higher ground" tool. That includes resolution - including heavy oversamplng for the Bayer type sensors - to get the color information. And, inevitably, the top of the line, such as Alexa65, will move to a greater sensor size and a greater pixel count and will have a higher dynamic range, resolution, improved color rendering, etc.

As to something being "good enough", let me offer an automotive analogy. One can easily get from point A to point B in a car powered by a 60 HP engine, something that was found in Honda Civics of the 80's (I know 'cos that's what I drove back then). But now Honda is coming out with a "racing" version of the Civic that has a 300 HP engine and not because its regular 140 HP engine isn't good enough but because the engineering can deliver it to the masses and the masses are willing to pay for it. And, getting back to the cameras, pro shooters are willing to pay for more than 2K. It's all there's to it.
 
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