EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

[Doug_EX]

Ok. More down votes coming my way from the thin skinned people who can't take criticism about their cameras.

I did not down vote your post though I wanted. Why? I didn't ordered a EVA1 and I understand that no camera is perfect. But, it looks like you are on a mission regarding the EVA1 and I really don't understand why. What are you trying to prove exactly beside the fact that the EVA1 is not the same camera as the Varicam? BTW, no one said it was the same camera. From what I read from the beginning is that the EVA1 is a good match for the Varicam and Panasonic worked hard to achieve this. Do people assume that the C200 deliver the same image as the C700? Could they both be use on a same project? I think so!

 

[fboonzaier]

I've seen both crap and beautiful images shot on an Alexa...When you're responsible for the outcome of a film, the reliability of the system you choose, is as important as the image and usability...DP's also choose the Alexa a lot, because they know the camera, and some of them completely screw up with it IMO...IQ wise, we are surely getting near the best that can be expected...so for me, whether Panasonic can manufacture the EVA to look like the Varicam, it would in fact be a stretch if they could'nt!...there's so much more to shooting a feature, than a few seconds of a very nice looking clip on the BMPCC or a 5DMK111 using Magic Lantern or for that matter, one of my beloved hacked GH2's....when an A-Lister makes 20 million a picture and is on a 4 week schedule, one's choices re what to use changes considerably...that's why IMO, holding up the Alexa as the holy grail of digital cameras, is not useful. There are many cameras that can get the job done, but few as reliably as the Arri or the F35 (an image I prefer over the Alexa) or the Varicam for that matter. I have little doubt the EVA will succeed...If I was making a 40 to 100 million picture, I would always choose an Alexa or Varicam...because you need the ergonomics, bullet proof reliability and you know the image is already there.

 

[Mitch Gross]

You may indeed have other sources, but I would not be so quick to discount DVXUser's reach.

DVXUser has over 121,000 registered members, and probably 10x that many lurkers. This very thread has over 230,000 views. I have little doubt that DVXUser is far and away the most concentrated, active group of interested EVA1 prospective purchasers worldwide.

There might be other groups with interested purchasers maybe (like CML, I guess) but -- I very strongly doubt they would have anywhere near the number of interested purchasers for a Panasonic camera, in this price range, as DVXUser has.

DVXUser has been the primary outlet for information on Panasonic AG-series camcorders since the introduction of the DVX100 back in 2003. We may not be home to *every* Panasonic buyer, but among those in the under-$10,000 price bracket I'd dare say we're home to a whole hell of a lot of 'em... :thumbsup:

I'm not discounting DVXuser at all -- why do you think I spend so much time here?

But I can tell you that there are many universities and certainly many houses of worship that think about these things tangentially at best. But they purchase a lot of gear, much more than many DPs would ever think. And perhaps at a school there is someone who is reading DVXuser, but for the most part they do not pay attention to a forum such as this.

Just sayin' we have many forms of outreach and we need to reach lots of clients of many types.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch, and all, wow, took me about 4-5 days to get through this, was a discussion, and full of info.

My current situation and then question, I sent a load of equipment to an online store to do my traditional upgrade process... in discussing cameras on reddit, the EVA came up, which brought me here.

"End of October" and with Mitch's recent word about preorders, I am wondering if there are any more specific info that can be had...

Is that October 31?? And will there be a supply?

As right now, I am down to just 1 camera to shoot... I don't want to rush into the next one, but if I can't get my hands on one of these until December... Ill proceed with my original plans...

Our preorders are with resellers. We have no way of knowing how many of those are spoken for and how many are for stocking. Panasonic will be shipping in quantity. I do not have a more precise date at this time.

 

[DLD]

And superior resolution means superior image?

It's a "part of" a camera's capability to deliver a better image than its competitors.

One would have thought the fact the Alexa is still the industry standard and being chosen over 4K and 6K cameras would have put this thought to rest long ago.

While Alexa is a great camera, it is, to some extent, a "lowest common denominator" camera. One can shoot the 1080p TV or a 2.8K feature with it. It's a jack of all trades or, to use a common euphemism, "check/tick all the boxes" product. It's reliable, it's ubiquitous, it's work-flow-able. Personally, I prefer the F65 image as shot by Storaro than Alexa65 as shot by Lubezki.

Yeah but since at least around here Netflix and Amazon have problems sometimes to keep even a HD stream going without glitches, I'm not too worried about getting anything bigger than what I have now.

Problems associated with the previous FCC are going away. Netflix is raising the 4K streaming prices because, with "net neutrality" gone, they will have to cough up a few billion for their own servers. Once the servers are installed, 4K-6K streaming will become flawless. Some will stream to their smartphones, others to their 75" screens. Vive la difference.

I've seen both crap and beautiful images shot on an Alexa... When you're responsible for the outcome of a film, the reliability of the system you choose, is as important as the image and usability...DP's also choose the Alexa a lot, because they know the camera, and some of them completely screw up with it IMO...IQ wise, we are surely getting near the best that can be expected... There are many cameras that can get the job done, but few as reliably as the Arri or the F35 (an image I prefer over the Alexa) or the Varicam for that matter. I have little doubt the EVA will succeed...If I was making a 40 to 100 million picture, I would always choose an Alexa or Varicam...because you need the ergonomics, bullet proof reliability and you know the image is already there.

Exactly. There are other variables at play beside pure image quality. AMC insisted that "Breaking Bad" was shot on 35mm because they considered it the best format for archiving (visavis the 1080p/2K cameras like F35). Nowadays, Netflix insists on 4K and Alexa is not on the list of the approved cameras.

 

[CharlesPapert]

when an A-Lister makes 20 million a picture and is on a 4 week schedule, one's choices re what to use changes considerably...

Dammit, my quote is $10 million, I've been giving it away!

 

[icarusfilm]

Thats what Harvey said

Dammit, my quote is $10 million, I've been giving it away!

 

[DBP]

.If I was making a 40 to 100 million picture, I would always choose an Alexa or Varicam...because you need the ergonomics, bullet proof reliability and you know the image is already there.

Similar to what happened with the first C300 in the corporate world. I remember that camera launch quite well. Specs were laughed at compared to the Scarlet.

Then it came out. Image was solid. Very reliable and easy to use. Went on to become one of the most successful cameras in recent memory, I'd wager.

It's true, none of this thread really means anything at this point. If the EVA delivers a solid image and makes our working lives easier, it'll be very successful. If it fails on either of those fronts, it won't.

I do strongly suspect some of the disappointment is tied to what others have said... camera tech hasn't seemed to have improved in a ton lately. And it won't, to be honest. The low hanging fruit of massive image quality leaps is over. Similar to still cameras, really. Everything is pretty solid now. Hard to be mindblowing anymore.

 

[fboonzaier]

Dammit, my quote is $10 million, I've been giving it away!

Ahhh....but that way you have staying power and room for negotiation!!

 

[Fahnon]

I do strongly suspect some of the disappointment is tied to what others have said... camera tech hasn't seemed to have improved in a ton lately. And it won't, to be honest. The low hanging fruit of massive image quality leaps is over. Similar to still cameras, really. Everything is pretty solid now. Hard to be mindblowing anymore.

You're right about the low hanging image quality fruit and images being generally good if you spend more than the minimum. I think that's why RED went 8k; everyone caught up in terms of resolution and DR, so they have to have an on-paper advantage to justify their prices.

Begs the question: What camera feature or image "thing" would get you to take notice in 2018? Global shutter? Super high (240fps+at full res) frame rates? A7s II ISO performance?

 

[icarusfilm]

Maybe its time to buy a camera and use it for 5 Years instead of 2.

 

[Run&Gun]

You're right about the low hanging image quality fruit and images being generally good if you spend more than the minimum. I think that's why RED went 8k; everyone caught up in terms of resolution and DR, so they have to have an on-paper advantage to justify their prices.

Begs the question: What camera feature or image "thing" would get you to take notice in 2018? Global shutter? Super high (240fps+at full res) frame rates? A7s II ISO performance?

My .02... Global shutter is what everyone should be working on. No global shutter is one of the big X's that keeps the new Vari's out from the forefront with me(I say this as an owner of 3 Vari's from the previous generations). The major players have good ISO performance, good DR, good overall image and really, outside of specialty uses, who needs 240 fps+ except in rare instances? I have an F55 and I still rarely go over 60 fps or 72 fps for slow-mo.

 

[filmguy123]

Begs the question: What camera feature or image "thing" would get you to take notice in 2018? Global shutter? Super high (240fps+at full res) frame rates? A7s II ISO performance?

I'll play!

4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal (the FS7 has this, actually... but I don't want the FS7 for other reasons)
IBIS on S35-sized sensor (the EVA-1's EIS might be the next best thing)
More ISO, of course. It's not about lazy-ness (unless you're a DP working on set), it's about creative flexibiltiy: natural light in lower light, live event indoors, etc. (pending firmware, EVA-1 might be best bet for this today - but I was hoping for at least Dual ISO at 3200 personally, but hey! it's all good).
Smoother more organic images (the promise I was/am hoping for on the EVA-1 - this topic has been beat to death - moving on...)
In-body Electronic variable ND filter (like the Sony models - wish the EVA-1 had this to smoothly scale ND up/down on a wider scale).
Pushing DR to 15 useable stops, consistent across the ISO range (let's avoid a DR discussion - 14 is already really great - just saying)
Global shutter, great (still very technically difficult)
More/better slow-motion (Minimal cropping, maximum bit depth and data rate, internal - I wish the EVA-1 had a 400mbps LongGop Codec custom suited for Super slow motion modes internally. EVA-1 does a great job here overall.).
Lightweight (this is a very distinguishing factor of the EVA-1 in my eyes)
Built in, flip-out iPhone X quality touch screen (not needing to be added - using lightweight camera body for simplicity, excellent touch screen, large, super high res, super bright, all manufacturer features built in seamlessly. EVA-1 sorely lacks here. But I get it, it's for cost. Just saying, I'd gladly pay more as an add-on feature to avoid the complexities, weight, and awkwardness of further kitting out a lightweight camera)
In-camera pre-amps as good as Sound Devices (120db range, etc.)
Canon's AF system in a non-Canon camera (solo op gimbal work)

--------------

As it is, the EVA-1 ticks most of these boxes better than most competitors.

 

[Sttratos]

It's a "part of" a camera's capability to deliver a better image than its competitors.

Yes a part. Although as Arri has proven a very small part. If it was any significant Red would be the leader of the pack instead of Arri.

While Alexa is a great camera, it is, to some extent, a "lowest common denominator" camera. One can shoot the 1080p TV or a 2.8K feature with it. It's a jack of all trades or, to use a common euphemism, "check/tick all the boxes" product. It's reliable, it's ubiquitous, it's work-flow-able.

I could swear you were describing the F55. The F55 is the camera which tries to be everything. The Alexa doesn't even have a built in ND. You sound a bit clueless regarding the Arri world and Arri's philosophy. Calling the Alexa a jack of all trades is just plain wrong and shows lack of knowledge. This is not Arri's way. Arri has different cameras for the different jobs. Alexa Mini, Amira, Alexa and Alexa65. All with the same sensor, same exact great image but made for different trades. Alexa is no jack of all trades. It's a cinema camera.

Personally, I prefer the F65 image as shot by Storaro than Alexa65 as shot by Lubezki.

You like the rest of us are entitled to your opinion. For the record the Alexa65 and all other Arris have the exact same image apart from the DOF difference.

Problems associated with the previous FCC are going away. Netflix is raising the 4K streaming prices because, with "net neutrality" gone,

What?

Nowadays, Netflix insists on 4K and Alexa is not on the list of the approved cameras.

Yet Martin Scorcese will still use an Alexa to shoot his Netflix production.:happy:

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

I've said it before. Sony has all the tech to do great cameras and I have no problem with colors from Sony cameras as some have. It's just a question if Sony will unlock these things in a single camera? Then again why would you ever upgrade after that? I for one have a hard time moving anywhere from the FS7 and its great feature set.

 

[icarusfilm]

Here you go:

http://www.arri.com/sales/contacts/camera_systems/

Yes a part. Although as Arri has proven a very small part. If it was any significant Red would be the leader of the pack instead of Arri.



I could swear you were describing the F55. The F55 is the camera which tries to be everything. The Alexa doesn't even have a built in ND. You sound a bit clueless regarding the Arri world and Arri's philosophy. Calling the Alexa a jack of all trades is just plain wrong and shows lack of knowledge. This is not Arri's way. Arri has different cameras for the different jobs. Alexa Mini, Amira, Alexa and Alexa65. All with the same sensor, same exact great image but made for different trades. Alexa is no jack of all trades. It's a cinema camera.

You like the rest of us are entitled to your opinion. For the record the Alexa65 and all other Arris have the exact same image apart from the DOF difference.

What?

Yet Martin Scorcese will still use an Alexa to shoot his Netflix production.:happy:

 

[DLD]

You're right about the low hanging image quality fruit and images being generally good if you spend more than the minimum. I think that's why RED went 8k; everyone caught up in terms of resolution and DR, so they have to have an on-paper advantage to justify their prices.

Begs the question: What camera feature or image "thing" would get you to take notice in 2018? Global shutter? Super high (240fps+at full res) frame rates? A7s II ISO performance?

Internal non-compressed (at least, mathematically) Raw onto (inexpensive) CFExpress cards or SSD's. And better/cheaper zooms - something like the Canon 4.4T's, except in 2.8T and with the (almost) high end (Cooke, Fujinon, ARRI, Zeiss, Angeneux) performance.

My .02... Global shutter is what everyone should be working on. No global shutter is one of the big X's that keeps the new Vari's out from the forefront with me(I say this as an owner of 3 Vari's from the previous generations). The major players have good ISO performance, good DR, good overall image and really, outside of specialty uses, who needs 240 fps+ except in rare instances? I have an F55 and I still rarely go over 60 fps or 72 fps for slow-mo.

It's easier to go 60-72 Fps without the global shutter in order to keep the DR up and the (development) costs down.

You sound a bit clueless regarding the Arri world ... (a comment in a different post)

That's a classless and entirely non-argumentative line.

 

[Sttratos]

Here you go:

http://www.arri.com/sales/contacts/camera_systems/

?

 

[Zak Forsman]

More ISO, of course. It's not about lazy-ness (unless you're a DP working on set), it's about creative flexibiltiy\

I'm not lazy! I'm a "convenience enthusiast"!

 

[Sttratos]

That's a classless and entirely non-argumentative line.

That's because you cut off all the argumentative part where a point was being made.

How can you call the Alexa which is a cinema camera made for high end production a jack of all trades? Like I said it doesn't even have built in NDs.

And what is classless about the line? I would understand your comment if I had resorted to name calling or anything of the sort. But I didn't. What is wrong in describing a comment which is so off base as clueless? I didn't mean to offend anybody. But I also fail to see how clueless is an offensive word.