EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates
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Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
The pitfall to incorporate much technology into a 7,4V driven camera is that it can be difficult to do signal processing as good as possible. There's a reason why higher speced cameras needs 12V or more to power it all. That will be the weak spot in this camera. Signal processing.
Then there's not much room to customize buttons, as there as so few, so usability might take a hit. Corners cut in not including a simple EVF loupe for the LCD is another. But that they can atleast configure until launch if they'd like.
As far as AF I wouldn't expect anything. Same thing with EIS as it won't be that great. I can see Sony doing IBIS soon on their S35 cameras.
Then there's not much room to customize buttons, as there as so few, so usability might take a hit. Corners cut in not including a simple EVF loupe for the LCD is another. But that they can atleast configure until launch if they'd like.
As far as AF I wouldn't expect anything. Same thing with EIS as it won't be that great. I can see Sony doing IBIS soon on their S35 cameras.
Dan Keeble
Well-known member
It must be exhausting for Mitch and everyone else associated with the production of this camera, having to read so many whiny comments about the presentation (does it REALLY matter?!) and other aspects of a new camera we didn't even know was coming a few months ago. Adults coming across ungrateful and spoilt.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
So, we just got specs, and they look identical to those of the FS7, which will be three years old when the EVA-1 starts shipping. Maybe it will have the DR and color of the Varicam LT, which are better than what you get on the FS7. Or maybe not.
Based on what we got so far, the market for the EVA-1 seems to be "people who can pay for an FS7 and want a camera like the FS7, but not the FS7, or the BM 4.6k, or the C200". The C200 at least has internal RAW and killer AF. We'll have to wait to see what the EVA-1 has going its way.
I do love the name, though. Just make the color accent PURPLE instead of red. You can then use red on the EVA-2.
(I can't believe I'm the first one doing an Evangelion reference in a thread about a Japanese camera called EVA-1, what have you guys been doing with your life)
Based on what we got so far, the market for the EVA-1 seems to be "people who can pay for an FS7 and want a camera like the FS7, but not the FS7, or the BM 4.6k, or the C200". The C200 at least has internal RAW and killer AF. We'll have to wait to see what the EVA-1 has going its way.
I do love the name, though. Just make the color accent PURPLE instead of red. You can then use red on the EVA-2.
(I can't believe I'm the first one doing an Evangelion reference in a thread about a Japanese camera called EVA-1, what have you guys been doing with your life)
Danilo Del Tufo
Well-known member
HI Barry,
Appreciate your responses, and your experience and solid reputation in the indistry, I am just speaking as a regular consumer. I am not an industry insider, just a guy who tries to make some money shooting video for people and has a small blog about things related to what I do.
But as someone, who currently owns a GH5, has owned in the past a HVX200, and an AF101 - I'd say the market has shifted 360 degrees since 2010, but for some reason Panasonic are still acting as if nothing has changed. Not talking about their technology - but their marketing efforts and corporate mentality.
The current market WANTS immediacy - we live in the VLOG generation - not V-Log - but in the "THIS IS MY LIFE AND I THINK IT'S SO INTERESTING I HAVE TO BROADCAST EVERY STUPID F*KING Aspect of it" - everything is on tap. This is a particularly vapid and poisonous thing, but that's the reality out there. The masses. Not saying that you'll see a lot of kids out there VLOGGIN on your EVA 1, I am sure there will be some, but it's the unconscious immediacy that we've been conditioned to.
No one really wants to wait too long for anything. A company has a new product - here it is, it will be released in 3 months and it will cost XYZ. That's it. We're not talking about the next generation , ground breaking electric mobility technology here or a new way to travel in space and time! We're talking about a sub-$10K camera that shoots pretty pictures and helps small businesses earn a decent living. That's it, it's simple.
Panasonic , IMHO, are making things more difficult for themselves then they ought to be by digging a hole called "massive expectations" by announcing stuff way too early....
In the real world out there - at least my world - where I do small corporate gigs I make the decisions, but when I do things for broadcast or where I am simply a hired hand - producers know 2-3 things - FS7, C300 and 5D - they dont even know the difference between 5D 3 , 2 or even 4. They just know that it makes pretty pictures. Now they are learning the A7s too - but that's the point - Panasonic isn't on the table. It never was in my experience.
Panasonic, in my opinion, is new to this game - they are facing very strong competition in brand recognition among other things - but mostly the PANASONIC badge just dont hold much water.
Here in the UK , I know exactly 1 Varicam LT owner, but on the other hand the ALEXA Mini owner ops and FS7 owner ops are the majority. I have never seen a DVX200 on a job, a few GH4's on a few very low paying jobs, and that's it. Everything is a C300, FS7 and REDs. The XF305 kicks a lot of ass too...
Like I said in previous posts, I am a fan of Panasonic - I really like with they are doing with their new cameras - thats why I bought a GH5. But the EVA 1 - even though it has a lot of potential, and I am sure it will be capable of making pretty pictures (in time), it will take a massive marketing effort to break the mold.
And so far, I am not convinced by any of the marketing materials or approach.
Hiring Mitch to market the camera and other Cinema related products in your CInema line is the best thing Panasonic could have done - that man is a treasure, but I hope that Panasonic really change they way they think about approaching their potential customers for this camera. As stubborn as Canon and Sony are - they get it ....
Dan Keeble
Well-known member
Wall-E : Evaaaa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDPFwhLTkgA
filmguy123
Veteran
Highlights:
Dual ISO at this point is a big surprise and awesome, highly competitive feature. I am assuming they are going to make this a flagship competitive point so would be surprised if it does not deliver the goods
New sensor @ 5.7K down-sampled is excellent! Well done. True 4K.
Lightweight body is essential and a HUGE deal - bigger than they are given credit for. Sure there are cameras this light on market, but NOT ones packing this feature set. Presuming the IQ is highly competitive with BMD URSA and FS7, but with this weight, it's truly a headlining feature in and of itself and a huge distinguisher
Codec and frame rate options sound very promising, assuming 4K 60p delivers at 10bit 4:2:2 (at least in LongGOP)
SD cards are the perfect choice, whether it needs to be V90 or not. Universal, interchangeable, affordable, SMALL, super lightweight. THANK YOU.
I actually commend Panny on dropping the EVF, very Apple-esque. Agree with Mitch in how it adds size, weight, power draw for something most people don't use, or most pros upgrade anyway. I know YMMV on this one and opinions will be varied, but it's a bold move with real benefits.
Looks to be great ergos, build quality, good aesthetic design, Varicam color is excellent, good product name, I like Panny
Lowlights:
ND filter is not electronic ala the FS5. Granted, neither is FS7 or most others, but after using variable ND filters and seeing the electronic IR it's a bummer to not see some innovation here. This really would have been a great feature.
Lack of innovative wow factor IE an interchangeable MFT mount. I do agree with Thomas' rationale but I also think Panny would have been super smart to include an swappable MFT mount with this. I don't think the market would have been *that* much of a niche for a couple reasons: an MFT mount with EF speedbooster left in S35 mode opens up some great possibilities. MFT to use hyper lightweight or low key lenses also opens up great options. MFT mount would have made this is a truly cohesive "bridge" camera between GH5 and the LT in a unique way on the market. TBH I didn't think it was likely anyway, and while I get and agree with Thomas' rationale, this really would have been a unique and distinguishing feature.
EIS might be great if it works better than expected... and IBIS is probably impossible with this sensor size... but it is a lowlight to not see a new innovation brought to the table. This camera with IBIS would have really set it over the top.
Which brings me to the main and final point...
Not much "new" to add to the market at this price point. It's *highly* competitive with the FS7, which is great for today, but is it enough for 2018/2019? I don't mean this as a thinking too far ahead or asking too much, I mean it as a genuine concern for my favorite camera brand. This happen with the AF100 and HVX200 - great cameras, quickly superseded. Will the EVA1 be able to hold it's ground in the market like the FS7 has for the past 3 years? Or will Sony merely answer this with an FS9 or similar next year (as they haven't released something truly new in this market for 3+ years, it's mildly disconcerting that the EVA1 isn't a larger forward step past the FS7)
Questions / Possible Lowlights:
"Up to" 10bit 4:2:2 does not indicate if this will be available in 4K 60p or in what VFR modes in 1080p. Assuming it will at least match the GH5, but will be disappointing if it merely matches the GH5... 4K 60p with high quality internal vlog (which needs 10-bit 4:2:2) is a big selling point. After using 10bit 4:2:2 I won't even consider shooting 8 bit or 4:2:0. External options begin to negate the huge selling point of this camera's lightweight, so here's hoping 4K slow-motion is a true viability without compromising heavily on internal capture.
LCD resolution - really hoping they step up the game here and release something bright and hi-res and don't "keep costs down" by providing a standard low quality LCD. This is a chance for them to make a splash and be competitive, as other have mentioned, cameras aren't just sensor specs, it's the whole usability package
Killer audio pre-amps? Or will pros still want to record externally?
Will there be obnoxious Varicam LT quirks like having to reboot the whole system when you change modes, or will we will be able to swap from 1080p 240fps to 4K 24p instanteously like on GH5? Hidden quirks like this can make or break the experience.
Slow motion crop, or full sensor no crop read-out up to 240p?
Not *too* worried about DR, thinking it will be either 14 or 15 stops and they aren't sure which yet, but there is one concern: Hoping it doesn't fall to 13 stops with the new 5.7k sensor and smaller pixel size. I am assuming they'll end up with 14 because of this (vs 15), but it remains to be seen, and the possibility of only 13 stops would be a bit of a blackmark on an otherwise excellent spec sheet (no intent to get into a DR argument here which always goes the same, I am merely stating that it would be rough if it falls a stop short from a marketing perspective vs BMD, Sony, etc.)
High ISO performance? It's one thing to have Dual ISO at 3200 or 5000 (whatever it ends up being), but the real perk there is being able to gain up from the new higher baseline. If I can 3-4 stops with clean noise on top of the higher dual ISO setting, awesome! if not, does it matter if Sony can do high ISO 3200 or 5000 just as clean (or nearly as clean) as the dual ISO setting? So, the high ISO noise performance remains to be seen. Nearly perfectly clean ISO boost of at least 3 stops beyond the Dual ISO High setting is what will make the feature compelling.
Any chance EIS will implement some cutting edge gyro tech ala the plagued SteadXP stabilizer?
Battery life expectations? Hoping we won't need half a dozen batteries to make it through one shoot day. Also hoping they are relatively lightweight.
Dual ISO at this point is a big surprise and awesome, highly competitive feature. I am assuming they are going to make this a flagship competitive point so would be surprised if it does not deliver the goods
New sensor @ 5.7K down-sampled is excellent! Well done. True 4K.
Lightweight body is essential and a HUGE deal - bigger than they are given credit for. Sure there are cameras this light on market, but NOT ones packing this feature set. Presuming the IQ is highly competitive with BMD URSA and FS7, but with this weight, it's truly a headlining feature in and of itself and a huge distinguisher
Codec and frame rate options sound very promising, assuming 4K 60p delivers at 10bit 4:2:2 (at least in LongGOP)
SD cards are the perfect choice, whether it needs to be V90 or not. Universal, interchangeable, affordable, SMALL, super lightweight. THANK YOU.
I actually commend Panny on dropping the EVF, very Apple-esque. Agree with Mitch in how it adds size, weight, power draw for something most people don't use, or most pros upgrade anyway. I know YMMV on this one and opinions will be varied, but it's a bold move with real benefits.
Looks to be great ergos, build quality, good aesthetic design, Varicam color is excellent, good product name, I like Panny
Lowlights:
ND filter is not electronic ala the FS5. Granted, neither is FS7 or most others, but after using variable ND filters and seeing the electronic IR it's a bummer to not see some innovation here. This really would have been a great feature.
Lack of innovative wow factor IE an interchangeable MFT mount. I do agree with Thomas' rationale but I also think Panny would have been super smart to include an swappable MFT mount with this. I don't think the market would have been *that* much of a niche for a couple reasons: an MFT mount with EF speedbooster left in S35 mode opens up some great possibilities. MFT to use hyper lightweight or low key lenses also opens up great options. MFT mount would have made this is a truly cohesive "bridge" camera between GH5 and the LT in a unique way on the market. TBH I didn't think it was likely anyway, and while I get and agree with Thomas' rationale, this really would have been a unique and distinguishing feature.
EIS might be great if it works better than expected... and IBIS is probably impossible with this sensor size... but it is a lowlight to not see a new innovation brought to the table. This camera with IBIS would have really set it over the top.
Which brings me to the main and final point...
Not much "new" to add to the market at this price point. It's *highly* competitive with the FS7, which is great for today, but is it enough for 2018/2019? I don't mean this as a thinking too far ahead or asking too much, I mean it as a genuine concern for my favorite camera brand. This happen with the AF100 and HVX200 - great cameras, quickly superseded. Will the EVA1 be able to hold it's ground in the market like the FS7 has for the past 3 years? Or will Sony merely answer this with an FS9 or similar next year (as they haven't released something truly new in this market for 3+ years, it's mildly disconcerting that the EVA1 isn't a larger forward step past the FS7)
Questions / Possible Lowlights:
"Up to" 10bit 4:2:2 does not indicate if this will be available in 4K 60p or in what VFR modes in 1080p. Assuming it will at least match the GH5, but will be disappointing if it merely matches the GH5... 4K 60p with high quality internal vlog (which needs 10-bit 4:2:2) is a big selling point. After using 10bit 4:2:2 I won't even consider shooting 8 bit or 4:2:0. External options begin to negate the huge selling point of this camera's lightweight, so here's hoping 4K slow-motion is a true viability without compromising heavily on internal capture.
LCD resolution - really hoping they step up the game here and release something bright and hi-res and don't "keep costs down" by providing a standard low quality LCD. This is a chance for them to make a splash and be competitive, as other have mentioned, cameras aren't just sensor specs, it's the whole usability package
Killer audio pre-amps? Or will pros still want to record externally?
Will there be obnoxious Varicam LT quirks like having to reboot the whole system when you change modes, or will we will be able to swap from 1080p 240fps to 4K 24p instanteously like on GH5? Hidden quirks like this can make or break the experience.
Slow motion crop, or full sensor no crop read-out up to 240p?
Not *too* worried about DR, thinking it will be either 14 or 15 stops and they aren't sure which yet, but there is one concern: Hoping it doesn't fall to 13 stops with the new 5.7k sensor and smaller pixel size. I am assuming they'll end up with 14 because of this (vs 15), but it remains to be seen, and the possibility of only 13 stops would be a bit of a blackmark on an otherwise excellent spec sheet (no intent to get into a DR argument here which always goes the same, I am merely stating that it would be rough if it falls a stop short from a marketing perspective vs BMD, Sony, etc.)
High ISO performance? It's one thing to have Dual ISO at 3200 or 5000 (whatever it ends up being), but the real perk there is being able to gain up from the new higher baseline. If I can 3-4 stops with clean noise on top of the higher dual ISO setting, awesome! if not, does it matter if Sony can do high ISO 3200 or 5000 just as clean (or nearly as clean) as the dual ISO setting? So, the high ISO noise performance remains to be seen. Nearly perfectly clean ISO boost of at least 3 stops beyond the Dual ISO High setting is what will make the feature compelling.
Any chance EIS will implement some cutting edge gyro tech ala the plagued SteadXP stabilizer?
Battery life expectations? Hoping we won't need half a dozen batteries to make it through one shoot day. Also hoping they are relatively lightweight.
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Danilo Del Tufo
Well-known member
Does anyone know if the EVA's LCD is a touch screen?
deltoidjohn
Veteran
I'd say the main market for the EVA-1 is "everyone who wanted the C200 to have a 10-bit codec". And, from the reaction I've seen online, that seems to be pretty much everyone who might've wanted a C200 in the first place!
You do realise the irony of this, don't you? That you are making this statement on a website forum (probably the largest film/video industry forum online, in fact) that acquires it's name, and a large portion of it's original fellowship, from a PANASONIC camera? A camera that pretty much revolutionised low-cost film-making?
So, the largest web community of film-making professional was founded around a Panasonic camera, yet you are announcing to that community that Panasonic "just don't hold much water"? :grin:
filmguy123
Veteran
I've owned only Panasonic cameras but he is right. I don't know anyone else who uses them anymore, other than a few GH owners. This is Sony/BMD territory now, and Panny is an outsider to the last 7 years of mid range shooters. They need to do more than quietly market a camera that competes (strongly, mind you) with a 3 year old FS7.
LCD details, codec specifics, unquantifiable features, color and high ISO, and how far below $8k they come in will all influence this cameras initial splash but more importantly its competive longevity.
LCD details, codec specifics, unquantifiable features, color and high ISO, and how far below $8k they come in will all influence this cameras initial splash but more importantly its competive longevity.
Yes, but Blackmagic is learning. The Ursa Mini Pro was shipping right away. Soon the better reliability excuse will wear out. And with that and Blackmagic's very low prices will make it very hard for Sony, Canon and Panasonic to compete in the low end market which the FS7, C200 and the EVA1 compete.
The same happened to Chinese made products. It used to be that everything made in China was crap. Today only people who work for western companies or are out of touch think so. Everything is made there. Even stuff for western companies.
Blackmagic will eventually get their stuff together. Maybe they already have with the Ursa Mini Pro. I think the only thing holding it back is the limited ISO. If they come out with a high ISO sensor next NAB in the very same camera body with same specs and price they will probably kill everybody.
That's true. You can say that about any of the sub $10K cameras when compared to the Ursa Mini Pro. Like I said, if they stick a high ISO sensor in it and keep the same price they will kill the sub $10K. If they do that and the reliability goes up I don't think I would have an excuse to keep avoiding them anymore.
The thing I'm getting at about the EVA1 is, it sounds very nice and God knows Panasonic needs a camera in that niche. But so far it seems only playing catch up with the FS7. It has some extra features but it's also much newer.
Somehow it seems Panasonic is still more worried about protecting their high end cameras than Sony these days. I could barely believe Sony had released a camera like the FS7 which did most of what the F5 did for such a low price. Then they did it again with the FS5. I hope Panasonic won't protect the Varicam too much with the EVA1. This is the advantage of Blackmagic. They have no product to protect.
But it's way too early to tell. What is looking like playing catch up today might turn out to be a show in innovation and set a new bench mark. We will see.
I think calling this a Varicam would be a mistake and damage the Varicam brand as a high end brand. It's obvious this is no high end camera. Panasonic is right in not calling it a Varicam.
boosh
Well-known member
Wow, the Eva 1 looks pretty amazing. So many great features, built in IS is a great feature. Mitch, it's great to know you're the customer facing person when it comes to the Eva1, everyone who owns or has owned a Odyssey 7Q knows how reliable you are. One function which is essential for me with what I shoot is 100fps in 4k. My FS700 does that with my Odyssey7Q. Will the Eva1 be able to do this outputting to the Odyssey7Q? I know you mentioned 5.7k output will be available further down the road but will a 4k signal be possible from day 1 when it starts shipping and if so will 4k 100fps be possible? I love shooting on my Odyssey7Q into Prores so having the ability do this with my next camera is essential for me.
Retrospective
Well-known member
Not sure why so many people are complaining but I thought this is an amazing set of features.
Dual ISO? Amazing! Just like their Varicam line-up.
Mitch, what I don't understand is why is there a need to develop this new sensor specifically for the EVA1? Why not just use the one from the Varicam? Protecting the Varicam line-up? It would make it too good for the price? Consumes too much power?
Dual ISO? Amazing! Just like their Varicam line-up.
Mitch, what I don't understand is why is there a need to develop this new sensor specifically for the EVA1? Why not just use the one from the Varicam? Protecting the Varicam line-up? It would make it too good for the price? Consumes too much power?
starcentral
Veteran
I also have no idea what people are complaining about, completely 100% and unequivocally embarrasses the C200.
Akos Baranya
Active member
Built-in IS seems like it will not be physical, but electronic IS, we will have to wait and see if panasonic will be the first to actually do a good EIS. The fact that the sensor is 5.7k should help with it. How bad the rolling shutter is on the sensor will be interesting for the stabilization too.
I don't understand people comparing it to the FS7, this is much smaller and lighter and with the dual iso you should get much better low light. But we will see when it launches, there is no point in over-dramatizing these things while nothing is out yet.
I don't understand people comparing it to the FS7, this is much smaller and lighter and with the dual iso you should get much better low light. But we will see when it launches, there is no point in over-dramatizing these things while nothing is out yet.
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