EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Bern Caughey said:
AKAIK Panasonic manufacturers the Varicam's sensor, but buys the GH5's, supposedly from Sony, so cost may not be that big a factor, especially if the Mystery Camera uses leftovers that were not quite up to the Varicam's standards.
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GH5 uses (perhaps slightly tweaked) Sony's IMX 270 sensor.
 
(As I put on my mansplaining cap...)
Actually, the size of the sensor is only one of several factors involved in the cost. There are numerous aspects to a sensor design, with micro lenses, drivers, row drivers, signal busses and a myriad of other factors. There are full frame sized sensors that are dramatically less expensive to produce than certain Super-35 sensors. Some designs can be extremely high performance with tolerances so tight that the wafer yield is frighteningly low. Others can be spit out all day long.

Not saying this has anything to do with the sensor in the upcoming camera or not, just talkin' sensors since you brought it up.

BTW, someone on Twitter once posted a photo of me at NAB engaged in what he called "Mitchsplaining". I rather liked that -- it's kinda what I'm hired to do.
 
Alvise Tedesco said:
Your frequent posts on a thread whose title compare the new camera to an FS5 confuses me! The FS5 sucks
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Alvy, which camera in the $5k price range is a better option than the FS5?

If Panasonic's mystery camera can surpass the DR and feature set of the Sony, they will sell a $%#*-load and I will be first in line to buy one.
 
TFilipiak said:
Alvy, which camera in the $5k price range is a better option than the FS5?

If Panasonic's mystery camera can surpass the DR and feature set of the Sony, they will sell a $%#*-load and I will be first in line to buy one.
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Really, an internally-recording 10-bit version of the FS5 would be pretty great, but if it's a more modern sensor than in the FS5 (like a BSI stacked sensor) that would have modern low-light and better RS performance, it'd be a winner just for that. That auto e-ND of the FS5 is a killer feature for run and gunners. If the FS5II can do that (and add IBIS), that's all Sony really _needs_ to do.
 
Panasonic has had a history in this space of bad timing... the HVX200 and AF100 both fell victim to that, being exceptional on release and quickly overshadowed.

The market is a little different now, but I hope they have learned their lesson and come out guns blazing. They really need to make a splash that will hold water for the next 3-4 years, and simply matching the FS5/FS7 feature set won't do that. They're going to need to make people say wow, and still keep saying wow even when the FS5 and next BMD camera roll out.

Let's hope they can get their mojo back and keep their reign on the middle tier market by hitting hard and not playing it too conservative here. If they do, only the diehard Panny fans will stick with them.
 
filmguy123 said:
Panasonic has had a history in this space of bad timing... the HVX200 and AF100 both fell victim to that, being exceptional on release and quickly overshadowed.

The market is a little different now, but I hope they have learned their lesson and come out guns blazing. They really need to make a splash that will hold water for the next 3-4 years, and simply matching the FS5/FS7 feature set won't do that. They're going to need to make people say wow, and still keep saying wow even when the FS5 and next BMD camera roll out.

Let's hope they can get their mojo back and keep their reign on the middle tier market by hitting hard and not playing it too conservative here. If they do, only the diehard Panny fans will stick with them.
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Yep! Totally agree.
 
filmguy123 said:
Panasonic has had a history in this space of bad timing... the HVX200 and AF100 both fell victim to that, being exceptional on release and quickly overshadowed.

The market is a little different now, but I hope they have learned their lesson and come out guns blazing. They really need to make a splash that will hold water for the next 3-4 years, and simply matching the FS5/FS7 feature set won't do that. They're going to need to make people say wow, and still keep saying wow even when the FS5 and next BMD camera roll out.

Let's hope they can get their mojo back and keep their reign on the middle tier market by hitting hard and not playing it too conservative here. If they do, only the diehard Panny fans will stick with them.
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It will be really interesting to see how this lands. I've actually only ever owned Panasonic cameras, including both of those. I kinda feel that Panny rarely ever excel at anything though, and have always trod a bit of a middle ground - but their relatively cheap pricing has always kept them in the game.

While i've always enjoyed their cameras, i've often been bugged by a feeling that they're already approaching obsolescence, even straight after buying them. Let's indeed hope that they come out with something a bit more competitive (in terms of more than just price).
 
Mitch already said area is not the only thing that matters, but in any case:
m43 is 4:3 aspect ratio, 17.3x13 mm, 225 mm2, horizontal crop factor 2.1x
S35 with a 16:9 aspect ratio (say, FS7) is 25.5×15.6 mm, 398 mm2, "just" 77% more than m43, horizontal crop factor 1.4x

A 4:3 sensor is not what you want for a video camera nowadays, unless you're shooting anamorphic.

Run&Gun said:
If you need a wider lens, buy a wider lens, but a 50mm lens designed for full frame and a 50mm lens designed for s35 are both going to produce the same fov on a s35 camera(and any other focal length for that matter). So saying that just because your lenses are designed for FF makes them not ideal for use in s35 doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you're just trying to say you need some wider focal lengths.

And for what it's worth, the new camera IS s35.
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My primary lens set is vintage Leitz glass for the Leica-R mount. I have: 24mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 60mm f/2.8 macro, 90mm f/2.8, 135mm f/2.8, 180mm f/2.8.
If I use this on S35, my wide end is very weak: not only does it top at 24mm (with the 21mm, 18mm, etc, being extremely expensive), but those vintage wide lenses are actually not that good either: the 24mm is the softest lens on my set by a good margin, and I believe the super-expensive wider ones are even softer.
Plus, I'm perfectly fine with the DoF I get at f/2.8 on FF, but on S35 I'd like to be able to go f/2 at least. Not all the time, but for some shots I really would need to have that option.
A lens set of similar quality but fitting S35 better would probably cost me more than the camera itself. It would have to be top notch primes at f/2 or faster covering 16mm to 135mm (except the 50mm which is my favorite lens in my set and already f/1.4 so more than fast enough). I could live by with just the Sigma 18-35 but it really does not match the image quality from my Leica primes (sharpness, probably yes, other aspects, definitely not).

This is a very personal thing that may not affect anybody else. That's why I said *I* wouldn't be buying it if it was S35 with EF mount.
(Even for newcomers my lens set doesn't make too much sense anymore: current prices have gone up so much that I wouldn't be able to afford it now!)
 
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It's going to be a brand new sensor in this thing. Not the Varicam sensor. That's come from Panasonic. They wouldn't tell me any more than that.

My guess is that its a Super 35 cut of the GH5 sensor.

To compete at this particular price range though it will have to be at least 4k 30p, 10bit, s35, 14 stops. I don't see how they can do any more than that without overlapping the Varicam LT specs.
 
It could have a lot of the same spec as the Varicam LT, but it would stay not a Varicam (read: a threat to the LT), by keeping things waterwd down; like it probably would only take SD cards, and be designed to take DVX200-style batteries instead of bricks. Keeping the media and power small and cheap would be part of the inexpensive workflow, and would keep ge new camera from harming the LT, while having similar spec and also not necessarily harming the GH5 because of the form factor. Honestly, people like me don't care for the GH5 or other stills cameras because we'd rather have a proper cinema camera form without needing cages.
 
I disagree on the cannibalism ideology of companies.
The market who will never buy a varicam LT is bigger than those who will.
The LT market wouldnt stop buying high end cams. Thats just silly.
 
dcloud said:
I disagree on the cannibalism ideology of companies.
The market who will never buy a varicam LT is bigger than those who will.
The LT market wouldnt stop buying high end cams. Thats just silly.
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If you cannibalise your own market you risk pissing off your own customers. Being the newest doesn't mean its going to be the best. Just because there's a large market that can't afford something doesn't entitle them to get it the next time a camera comes out.
 
I wonder what the profit margin between the Varicam and LT is and what the profit margin would be on the new Mini or whatever they call it.
 
DLD said:
High end margins are around 40% at retail and roughly 50% at OEM.
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Back in my college days I ran a indie supermarket. We rented a garage behind the store to store beer and soda.

So basically what I did was purchase those items in bulk when the distributor put them on sale. So after the sale I kept by beer and soda prices way lower than the big chain markets. We where faster and easier to get to. So basically we started selling more beer and soda than the big chains down the street and our profits increased even after I lowered our profit margin. We sold more in volume. lol yes I know there are more beer and soda buyers than they're are cinema camera buyers.

I guess I just got curious on the markup and such.

Thanks.
 
filmguy123 said:
Panasonic has had a history in this space of bad timing... the HVX200 and AF100 both fell victim to that, being exceptional on release and quickly overshadowed.
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Actually, I believe the HVX200 reigned for quite some time. The competition in small HD handhelds at the time was the Sony Z1U, but it was tape based and didn't offer and progressive frame rates, only 1080i. The lack of 24p really stopped it from overshadowing the HVX200. It wasn't until the Sony EX-1 came about a few years later that things changed.

I was managing the back room of AbelCine Rentals in NY at the time, and I can tell you that the little HVX200s were rolling out the door constantly in both sales and rental. And back in the day we started with only 4G P2 cards!
 
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