Panasonic announces Single P2 Reader

mcgeedigital said:
That looks exactly like the DuelAdapter, which has been prone to failure.
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That is the Duel Adapter. Panny announced a single slot p2 reader but we have yet to see it what it looks like, hence my "please make it FW800 and/or Esata" remark.
 
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Panasonic is making a single slot P2 card reader. There are many different P2 solutions out there, but most of our clients want a simple single card solution. There might still be an updated driver for the DuelAdapter, but the Panasonic reader is great news for all you P2 camera owners.
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My two suggestions- this should be released *now* and should cost no more than $150. I mean dang- there's really no other way to read P2 cards with a modern computer now so it's kind of on Panasonic to make this easy and affordable unless they want P2 to go the way of ATRAC and MiniDisc...

Noah
 
A Panasonic built reader with a driver that Panasonic will be responsible for updating is a VERY GOOD thing.

And yeah- we need it ASAP! Taking their own sweet time about it is not a very good plan if they want to retain their independent user base.

The best connectivity is not a given at this point; I'd pick FireWire 800 as of today, but if it's not fully baked for half a year it's hard to say. Light Peak will probably still be vaporware, but USB 3 could be an option by then. I've not been impressed by Express Card connectivity with the Duel; it's such a flaky connection. And of course Apple seems to think it's headed for the dustbin based on recent MacBook Pro configurations, which by default makes the preference of Mac users being connectivity other than Express Card slot.

If it is FireWire only, it has to share the single FireWire bus on most laptop computers such as the MacBook Pro . The result being that if you are offloading to an external FireWire drive at the same time = slow. But of course the great thing is that it could plug straight into any FireWire equipped tower, and by the time half a year arrives we might have 128 Gb P2 cards that negate the need for many field dumps. So for maximum compatibility, I'm hoping they make it FireWire 800.
 
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Steve Smull said:
The best connectivity is not a given at this point; I'd pick FireWire 800 as of today, but if it's not fully baked for half a year it's hard to say.

Light Peak will probably still be vaporware, but USB 3 could be an option by then...
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Agree on Firewire.

I think Light Peak is the real deal.

Intel already has it working, and it is cross platform.
 
NoahK said:
My two suggestions- this should be released *now* and should cost no more than $150. I mean dang- there's really no other way to read P2 cards with a modern computer now so it's kind of on Panasonic to make this easy and affordable unless they want P2 to go the way of ATRAC and MiniDisc...

Noah
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Absolutely spot on.

Yes, you can still buy PC Cardbus laptops.

But you also can still buy 8 track tapes.

C'mon Panasonic, make this happen soon and reasonably -- to emphasize -- REASONABLY priced.
 
"Panasonic is developing a new 1 slot P2 drive which works on Mac OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and planning to launch it in the spring of 2010."

Spring 2010 ?, isn't that many many many months away, plus the usual panasonic dragged out extensions for various reasons, I'm getting the Sonnet Qio, it has more bang for buck, even it's many more bucks than the cheap as, hit or miss "duel".
Also a "single slot" reader is ridiculous, what happens if you bend a "pin" and render the reader useless and, your on a mountain top somewhere, must you then as now carry a spare reader ?, what is gained ?

Panasonic should have planned a progression of the P2 Slot connector to Expresscard interface over time with newer model cams ect, and kept up with the changes in most modern computer hardware builds.
BUT, it is their right to make/design their products the way they want, maybe if they had used a totally dedicated unique Panasonic connector all this fuss over PCMCIA or Expresscard connection would have been avoided?.
To most users it's frustrating that a simple PC slot connection is not being designed into modern computer hardware, but that's technology advancements. (yes barry, i admit there are some windows lappies still out there with PC slots)

Cheers
TomK
olinevideo.com.au
 
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I don't know anything whatsoever about this product, but I'll give you some points to chew over:

1) it's very, very, very unlikely that such a product would feature primarily a firewire 800 interface. Why? Because no manufacturer of laptops other than Apple has a firewire 800 interface. I don't think I've ever seen fw800 on any non-Apple system. And even if someone points out some systems that have it, I'll still say that it's rare. And the way Apple's changing things around, I wouldn't expect a multi-platform-supporting manufacturer to go trusting fw800 as having any longevity either.

2) It's far, far, far more likely that it'll be USB or ExpressCard. USB is universally supported. ExpressCard is (or was; thanks again Apple for disrupting everything).

3) If it's expresscard it might be cheap. If it's USB, it will not be cheap. I would not be surprised in the least to see a 1-slot device from them costing $1600. The PCD20 is a five-slot USB device, and it's $2000. And the slots are not the expensive part.

4) I wouldn't be surprised at all if what they introduce is basically an Addonics/Duel-style adapter. That would give them the opportunity to sell it cheap, while still maintaining dual platform compatibility. But, of course, those who buy computers without expresscard slots will still be screwed. So don't buy those.

5) Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll use a universal high-speed connector that just about every modern computer has -- gigabit ethernet.

As for the Sonnet QIO, how do you plan to hook that up to a laptop? It has the same problem with the MBP as everything else does -- Apple took away the expresscard slot.
 
2010 to support a OS that runs on laptops that have SD card slots, that replaced Expresscard slots, that replaced PC card slots your P2 cards used to begin with?

If P2 cards came out in 2004, the same year laptop manufacturers introduced Expresscard slots, why didn't Panasonic go with that?

Slow and steady wins the race?
 
Likely because of many reasons, not the least of which was that PCMCIA was long-established whereas expresscard was brand new, and PCMCIA has a much more secure mounting system instead of the dodgy expresscard system, and PCMCIA had the physical size to accomodate the original P2 design of 4 SD cards.
 
Barry_Green said:
5) Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll use a universal high-speed connector that just about every modern computer has -- gigabit ethernet.

As for the Sonnet QIO, how do you plan to hook that up to a laptop? It has the same problem with the MBP as everything else does -- Apple took away the expresscard slot.
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Hi Barry,
yes agreed gigabit would be nice, Sonnet Qio will work in the 17" MBP via Expresscard adapter, I suppose apple decided that real professionals will go for the top of the line MBP and not the entry levels units. I personally, for field editing and encoding would get a Top range unit, not an entry level MB and forever squeal about lack of grunt and features, but that's me.
In the mean time I have a cruddy windows and it works fine with P2.

I read here that many guys want the "best" at the "cheapest" price point, that's not going to happen, and as some have written, they hoped some-one would write a P2 driver for the Duel to work on SL and sell it for $10 is just laughable.
Would they shoot and sell their vision for $10, and support it for ever ? , I doubt it very much.

If Panasonic had introduced a simple lower cost solution when P2 was released that would have satisfied the Indies, then all this disscussion would be irrelevant. they know there's no money in that so they kept clear, and that's their perogitive.

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
Oh Jesus Christ. On April 22 2009 In this thread: (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=168996) I went on about how Panasonic needed to do this. I was told all kinds of things by you guys, told it was too hard or too expensive to make, and even put down about it by Barry. Here we are 6 months later and Panasonic is working on it. Do you guys see why it's important to voice your opinions? Sometimes it just seems like there is so much damn negativity in this place once anyone questions Panasonic. Sometimes this forum can be really annoying.
 
ecking said:
Oh Jesus Christ. On April 22 2009 In this thread: (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=168996) I went on about how Panasonic needed to do this. I was told all kinds of things by you guys, told it was too hard or too expensive to make, and even put down about it by Barry. Here we are 6 months later and Panasonic is working on it. Do you guys see why it's important to voice your opinions? Sometimes it just seems like there is so much damn negativity in this place once anyone questions Panasonic. Sometimes this forum can be really annoying.
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Hi Ecking,
some of us have actually spent lots of time and lots of money trying to create our own card reader solutions, and yes, all is too expensive and too hard.
If you want to have a go at building your own reader and build a working driver for it on windows and mac, i'm sure there's plenty of guys out there will give you $10 for every unit you sell, you'll make a fortune.....go for it.... I'll even give you $100 for the first one you get to market. (and you have to support it too)
I personally wouldn't hold my breath for a cheap solution from Panasonic, their track record is great products at the top end of costs, not Bargain Basement prices, Nor should they be.
Not Negative "Realistic".

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
I don't think it would cost $1600...the P2 Store is a single slot and so much more for LESS than $1500. Nor do I think it will go for $150. It's a proprietary piece, and they know they won't sell a ton of them cuz most people have already figured out their workflow. I guess it will be on B&H for $329.95...in March, 2010.
 
ecking said:
I went on about how Panasonic needed to do this.
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You asked for a USB reader. Nobody has said that Panasonic is developing a USB reader.

I was told all kinds of things by you guys, told it was too hard or too expensive to make, and even put down about it by Barry. Here we are 6 months later and Panasonic is working on it.
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Working on a single-slot reader. Nobody said anything about USB. My guess is that if it's USB, it'll be expensive, and if it's cheap, it'll be ExpressCard.

Nothing has changed at all.

Do you guys see why it's important to voice your opinions?
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Respectfully, voicing opinions had nothing to do with why they're developing it. Apple screwing the marketplace has everything to do with it. Apple pooched everyone by changing Snow Leopard, which makes the Duel not work, and removing the ExpressCard slot has made it not worth it for Duel to bother supporting it anymore. Panasonic is probably in a bit of a panic and has finally realized what they should have realized five years ago -- they HAVE to supply solutions. Not everyone can afford a PCD20.

As for voicing opinions -- Panasonic has had the single-slot USB idea voiced to them approximately seven trillion times. There is nobody working at Panasonic who hasn't heard the complaint, and that includes the janitors and the parking lot attendants.

Does anyone really think that they don't know about the desire and the demand for such a unit? Of course they're painfully aware of it. And every time I've brought it up to them, I've been told the same thing -- "if we made a single-slot USB reader, it'd cost the same as our multi-slot reader. It's the electronics inside, not the number of slots, that causes the expense."

So -- if they produce a $119 USB-based reader, then I'll join with you and say they were lying hypocritical weasels the whole time. Or, the alternative interpretation is that they're willing to take a massive bath in red ink just to satisfy customer demand.

Which is why I say -- if it's USB it won't be cheap. If it's cheap, it won't be USB, it'll be expresscard. Nothing's changed in that basic formula.

In fact, the most obvious course for Panasonic to take would be to just buy the DuelAdapter off Duel, update the driver, and release it under their own name.
 
Most of the complaint about no cheap card solution is coming from MAC users. I have never seen people fight so hard to get a piece of gear do something it just does not do well. I love MACS worked on them for years, and it is hands down one of the most beautifully designed and executed computers on are planet. BUT IF IT DOESN'T WORK GET SOMETHING THAT DOES.
There are plenty of cheap solutions for PC. Adapters can be had for as little as 50 bucks. Its not a lack of options its the lack of MAC options. That is the risk you take when you buy a proprietary computer system. Again I love them but they don't do P2 well. Its not Panny's fault that MAC is more focused on Ipods and Iphones then the creative community that kept them alive before MAC got all iSexy. I think it sucks, but I do believe if Pany could have done this they would have by now.

Panny has introduced a format. That is not easy. It is a huge gamble to release a new format. If it is not adopted your screwed with millions in R&D gone to waste. If Panny could do a USB card reader for 150 bucks then it would have come in the box with the first HVX.

This is not BIG business screwin the Indi community. This is an inconvenience from the new iMania business model of our favorite fruit.
 
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jason.adams said:
Most of the complaint about no cheap card solution is coming from MAC users.

Its not Panny's fault that MAC is more focused on Ipods and Iphones then the creative community that kept them alive before MAC got all iSexy. I think it sucks, but I do believe if Pany could have done this they would have by now.
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I think your argument is a little disingenuous.

It's becoming more and more difficult to locate PC Cardbus slotted PC laptops as well. The duel adapter EC/34 solution is notoriously squirrelly on both platforms.

Panasonic has to step to the plate with something that efficiently provides ingest to both platforms other than its pricey five card readers.

It's not just a field acquisition issue. It also is difficult to transfer cards to a desktop. A FW p2 card reader would go a long way to making ingest easier for both laptop and desktop.

This isn't a Mac issue; it's an ingest issue for both platforms on a interface/protocol that is slowly becoming old.
 
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