AC160 Panasonic Ag AC-90

Thanks Barry for explaining things. So the HMC150 has better ISO, but the AC90 has better and cleaner gain. And the AC90 image is simply much sharper than the HMC150.
As much as I sit here and try to think of the trade-offs and difference, I really need to see a side-by-side comparison. Either of the HMC150, 130, and would be nice with the Canon G10 which is known for great low light footage.
I shoot a lot of conferences that I cannot control the lighting, so I need a camera that shoot good in low light.
Also for nature videos in low light conditions.

Also, would like to see what happens to this camera in bright summer sunny days. You mentioned putting in a ND filter. To me that would not work going from bight area to a subject in the shade. Does the camera not shoot acceptable footage, and not adjust accordingly the in camera NDfilter for bright daylight?

I would like a B camera for my HMC150, and was looking at the Canon G10 which is close in price, so I hope this camera is going to be just as good or better.

I am waiting just a bit to see more demo videos and hear from the customers before I buy.
I was bummed out about the AC130 autofocus issue, so I am excited to read more of the AC90.
Low light, image match and ND filter issue is what I will wait to hear about.
 
Barry_Green said:
And its ND filter isn't strong enough, you really need to add a 2-stop or 3-stop ND filter to shoot in broad daylight..
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Hi Barry,

I was looking at this camera for steadicam work because of its rapid focus. One of the comments that has appeared often about the 130/160 is that adjusting ND settings in varying outdoor light is not ideal on a steadicam rig .

Would adding the 2 stop ND filter, coupled with the auto exposure adjustments give a bigger "adjustment free" range than the 130/160?.
 
Rod Pike said:
Hi Barry,

I was looking at this camera for steadicam work because of its rapid focus. One of the comments that has appeared often about the 130/160 is that adjusting ND settings in varying outdoor light is not ideal on a steadicam rig .

Would adding the 2 stop ND filter, coupled with the auto exposure adjustments give a bigger "adjustment free" range than the 130/160?.
Click to expand...

It won't broaden the range, it just shifts the range.
 
Deer Film said:
Also, would like to see what happens to this camera in bright summer sunny days. You mentioned putting in a ND filter. To me that would not work going from bight area to a subject in the shade. Does the camera not shoot acceptable footage, and not adjust accordingly the in camera NDfilter for bright daylight? ........Low light, image match and ND filter issue is what I will wait to hear about.
Click to expand...

The problem of panning from a bright area to a subject in the shade (for locked exposure) is the problem of the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor. The gamma curve compresses the highlights to allow more of the scene's dynamic range to fit within the camera's recording range. The slopes of the curve influence the look of the footage, how well shadow detail is managed, how well highlights are preserved. That's why you are given several gammas to choose among.

The AC90 has three primary methods for dealing with a scene's dynamic range, and one secondary less desirable method.

1.) Gamma, choose HD NORM, SD NORM, HIGH, LOW, CINE-D and CINE-V
2.) DRS, choose 0,1,2 or 3.
3.) Knee, choose 80%, 90%, 100% or AUTO

The secondary method is automatic exposure, the camera adjusts iris or shutter speed or both to achieve proper exposure as you pan from bright to dark areas. Very effective, but amateur.

A benefit of the AC90 is the effectiveness of the first 3 methods mimics the performance of larger sensor cams that have more dynamic range inherently.

ND filters are essential kit for ALL camcorders, even the big sensor high sensitivity ones, like my PMW350 2/3 inch shoulder cam! The suggestion that they are mandatory for the AC90 is no different.
 
Rod Pike said:
Would adding the 2 stop ND filter, coupled with the auto exposure adjustments give a bigger "adjustment free" range than the 130/160?.
Click to expand...
Yes, because the AC90 can automatically adjust its shutter, and the 130/160 can't. So you can go from wide-open iris with 30db of gain and a 1/30 shutter, seamlessly to 0dB of gain, 1/500 shutter and f/11. With the 130/160, you'd have to manually adjust the ND filter, and you'd perhaps have to manually trigger the gain with a physical switch. You can actually get automatic gain control to a limited degree on the 130/160, but you have to put the camera in "full auto" to get that.

The problem with relying on the full automatic shutter is that the shutter controls the motion blur and the perception of motion, and in broad daylight the shutter might go as high as 1/500, and that makes for very choppy motion. That's why the additional ND filter helps, but that's gonna hurt when going to an indoor shot...
 
(Formely the Canon Xf-100 XF-300) A. does this mean you got rid of these 2 cameras - B. can you compare them to the AC-130 & AC-90 - C. why would you not buy another ac-130 to match what you have?
 
The answer is WHY NOT. I dumped the Canon cameras and never looked back.

The AC-90 matches my 130 perfectly and the small size is just what I needed for GlideCam work. I just discovered that the new 5 Axis Stabilizer doe not effect GlideCam work for some reason. It actually looks terrific for the 5 minutes I used it after setting up the the GlideCam HD-4000.
 
Lou, can I ask why you "dumped" the XF300/100? I really like the image from the XF300 and am looking at a 100. What is the cause of the dislike of the Canon's to favor the AC-130?

The AC-90 at ISO 40 seems way too light challenged to be along side the larger cameras. Thanks.
 
I never had luck with Blu-rays using my XF300. They always displayed interline twitter. I sold the XF-100 because of the dynamic range and wanted a three chip camera. Panasonic was affordable plus better in lowlight. The AC-90 is small enough for my Glidecam plus the auto-focus is spot on. The AC-90 is better in lowlight than the XF-100. I guess the pixel shifting, upconvert to 4K,noise reduction is the reason. No major grain issues. The 0db with proper lighting is sharper than the XF-100. Even though rated at ISO 40, I guess the enhancements make that a moot issue. Just my opinion.



Bassman2003 said:
Lou, can I ask why you "dumped" the XF300/100? I really like the image from the XF300 and am looking at a 100. What is the cause of the dislike of the Canon's to favor the AC-130?

The AC-90 at ISO 40 seems way too light challenged to be along side the larger cameras. Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, because the AC90 can automatically adjust its shutter, and the 130/160 can't. So you can go from wide-open iris with 30db of gain and a 1/30 shutter, seamlessly to 0dB of gain, 1/500 shutter and f/11. With the 130/160, you'd have
The problem with relying on the full automatic shutter is that the shutter controls the motion blur and the perception of motion, and in broad daylight the shutter might go as high as 1/500, and that makes for very choppy motion. That's why the additional ND filter helps, but that's gonna hurt when going to an indoor shot...
Click to expand...

Barry just to be clear, you still have fully manual shutter control as well correct? I know it seems like a silly question, but this little Panny although wonderfully priced has some bizarre omissions (no WFM, removable hood etc) and I want to make sure that shutter control isn't of them.

Also, can you confirm the par-focal ability's of this lens? One of things I miss about shooting on EX3's and EX1's from my TV days (I now shoot a lot of HDSLR and grow tired of it) was snap zooms and being able to zoom in on the eyes, get focus, and then constantly re-compose throughout the interview without having to constantly worry about focus.... and the "auto is great" is not something I care about :)

Thanks sooo much for being such a great member of this forum, and to all the members, I'm fairly new (became active mainly for the AC90) and think this place has a great and varied community.
 
Plazer said:
Barry just to be clear, you still have fully manual shutter control as well correct?
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Yes, of course. You have the option of full manual, or auto.

I know it seems like a silly question, but this little Panny although wonderfully priced has some bizarre omissions (no WFM, removable hood etc) and I want to make sure that shutter control isn't of them.
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Better to ask beforehand, so I understand the question. And no there's no WFM, but there is a histogram, which isn't a real substitute but combined with the zebras it does provide a workable exposure system. And the lens hood actually is removable. There's a tiny screw that, if you remove, makes the lens hood able to bayonet off just like prior Panasonics.

Also, can you confirm the par-focal ability's of this lens? One of things I miss about shooting on EX3's and EX1's from my TV days (I now shoot a lot of HDSLR and grow tired of it) was snap zooms and being able to zoom in on the eyes, get focus, and then constantly re-compose throughout the interview without having to constantly worry about focus.... and the "auto is great" is not something I care about :)
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Well, it doesn't have a truly manual zoom like the prior Panasonics, so a genuine "snap zoom" isn't really possible. You can zoom in to full telephoto, focus, and then zoom out to wide angle and it definitely holds focus exactly where you set it.

Thanks sooo much for being such a great member of this forum, and to all the members, I'm fairly new (became active mainly for the AC90) and think this place has a great and varied community.
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That's what we strive for. Welcome!
 
No; I only know that I tested it at close focus and at infinity focus, zooming in to 100% telephoto, focusing, zooming out to 100% wide, then back in to 100% tele, it held focus sharply throughout the range in both cases.
 
Barry_Green said:
No; I only know that I tested it at close focus and at infinity focus, zooming in to 100% telephoto, focusing, zooming out to 100% wide, then back in to 100% tele, it held focus sharply throughout the range in both cases.
Click to expand...

My copy is not so good in this regard, I have it with me, will do a short outdoor test and post screen grabs today.
 
I did 5 tests. Cutting to the chase, in 4 of the 5 instances I was not able to reproduce the non-parfocal behavior. In those 4 instances, I was able to zoom-in 100%, focus manually, zoom-out 0% and the target remained in focus. In the 5th instance, the target softened slightly after zooming-out 0%.

What *is* happening, seems related to the circle of confusion. In other words, if you zoom in 100% and focus manually, the focus number that appears is typically 95, i.e. infinity. If you digitally zoom 10x and push the one-shot-auto-focus button, it manually locks the target at a focus number typically 60. The former has the effect of having your subject and everything behind it in focus while slightly softening the foreground. The latter has the effect of having your subject and everything behind it in focus since it is within the circle of confusion, while also keeping more of the foreground in focus, thus giving the perception of a more sharply focused scene overall.

To restate, if you zoom 100% and focus manually, you might get a focus number of 90-95. If you digitally zoom 10x and push the one shot AF button, you might get a focus number of 55-60 for the same target. Both focus numbers seem to generally put the target in focus, due to the target falling within the DOF, but the zoom to 100% and focus manually method tends toward a slight back-focus (target and everything behind it is in-focus), whereas the digital zoom 10x and one-shot-push-to-focus button tends to put the target at the center of the circle of confusion (DOF).

My opinion on this is that my copy exhibits a very slight back-focus tendency when using the zoom to 100% and focus manually and pull back technique, versus digitally zooming in 10x, push to focus, digitally zoom out 1x.

I'll post some pics shortly.
 
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