Panasonic 4k camera system info & updates

pulpfiction007 said:
It's only 1.4x crop when compared to Super 35mm film, which is what the standard should be when talking about video/cinema. Not comparing it aginst a 5DMK2/3...which is essentially the same as the rarely used vista vision format.
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See, this isn't so much about specs as it is about functionality. I can live with the crop factor on 1080p, cause the m43 12mm lens are pretty good (olympus 12mm f2.0, sharp, good look, still nice and wide with a 24mm FF equivalent). But start cropping more, whatever format you compare it too, and the wide end on M43 really starts getting week. Sure there's a couple wider lens but you start sacrificing speed and distortion. It's not a deal breaker but it is DEFINITELY a bummer that the 4K mode on this has to crop even more than it already does. Really hope we can see something like an AF200 engineer the sensor specifically for video and not require the extra crop in 4K mode.

Speedbooster does help for sure - but on the wide end, there are limited options for good glass to use the speedbooster with, and it does nothing for native M43 glass (and sometimes having fast autofocus on the M43 wides is particularly nice for steadicam work, etc.)
 
Samuel H said:
AFAIK, crop is 2x when shooting 1080p, and 2.3x when shooting 4K
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I already know native 4/3 sensor is 2x smaller than full frame. Movie crop function in gh2 and gh3 means camera uses only center of the sensor, say native 1920x1080 pixels of sensor, and you get extra 2.7 x in 1080p and 3.6x in 720p mode and it is quite usable for telephoto work. In Gh3, camera can't do 1080 50-60p, only 25-30p in movie crop function. I wonder is there any update for Gh4 ? it would be very nice if Gh4 can do 96fps in 2.7x movie crop mode :))
 
No I don't think the "story" videos are filmed with GH4, the DoF and overall asthetics looks something else. And it's not the point with these videos anyway, they are just ads.
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Like I said before they were shot with the Digital Bolex. I say Panasonic is a genius by helping showcase the Digital Bolex capabilities.
 
pulpfiction007 said:
It's only 1.4x crop when compared to Super 35mm film, which is what the standard should be when talking about video/cinema. Not comparing it aginst a 5DMK2/3...which is essentially the same as the rarely used vista vision format.
Click to expand...

I'd rather state all my crops in relation to the FF "standard" that everybody knows and understands, but if you want to write them in relation to something else, well, suit yourself :)
You're going to have to write a lot of "when compared to Super 35mm film", though.
 
As to crop... I'm a complete convert to m43 - so for me 12mm is 12mm (in my m43 world) - we really only care about AoV right? (keeping DoF aside)

So for 1080p on the GH3 and GH4 the 12mm is still 12mm (with a AoV of 86') - with zero crop.

But going to 4k we lose some of the WA and the 12mm becomes a 13.8mm (with a AoV of 78') with a 1.15 crop.

Is that correct..?
 
To me it's hard to get an image that pops from m4/3 cameras. Technically they are great and usually packed with features but the pop just isn't there. I doubt a 4k resolution will change that. You certainly can use the F0.95 lenses to squeeze as much cream from m4/3 as possible but still in comparison with S35 cameras the sensor and technology behind it fades. When you use the ultra shallow DOF lenses on m4/3 it feels kinda weird to have that much shallow DOF and to me it's hard to find at good balance that looks natural. On S35 cameras this is very easy giving me a decent shallow DOF that just feels right.

In a professional world with a great gaffer any camera can look good but it's to addictive to have a camera that delivers right away even without the high budget or a team. There are many great examples of videos from m4/3 cameras that look great but it's when you do the fast and dirty work that reveals the pop-less image.

I and many others are used to the now classic 5D look. Technically not good at all until the 5Dmk3 came but the image look and pop is there. I feel that no matter what kind of technology Panasonic puts in m4/3 it still wont touch S35 or full frame cameras from the likes of Canon and Sony.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with smaller sensors, you just need different lenses, that's it. If the GH2 and GH3 have an image that I don't like, it's not because of the sensor size, but because of how contrasty and digital it looks. Nothing to do with sensor size. The BMC has a smaller sensor and it looks great.

(always, *my* opinion; I know there are lots of GH2 and GH3 lovers, I'm just not one of them)
(also, that "you just need different lenses" is important; my lens set is designed for FF, so I want FF, or APS-C with speedbooster; don't worry, I know how to close the aperture)
 
Samuel H said:
I'd rather state all my crops in relation to the FF "standard" that everybody knows and understands, but if you want to write them in relation to something else, well, suit yourself :)
You're going to have to write a lot of "when compared to Super 35mm film", though.
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Full frame is the "standard" in the photography world, which I guess would be correct here since we're talking about a stills camera. I just think sometimes people need to be reminded that M 4/3 is very close to Super 35 film. You say everybody understands, but clearly they don't...because they constantly think M 4/3 isn't wide enough, shallow enough, yadda yadda yadda. And that might be true in taking PHOTOS compared to an MK3, but when shooting video it's a couple of steps forward or back to match s35...THE "STANDARD" for movies.
 
filmguy123 said:
See, this isn't so much about specs as it is about functionality. I can live with the crop factor on 1080p, cause the m43 12mm lens are pretty good (olympus 12mm f2.0, sharp, good look, still nice and wide with a 24mm FF equivalent). But start cropping more, whatever format you compare it too, and the wide end on M43 really starts getting week. Sure there's a couple wider lens but you start sacrificing speed and distortion. It's not a deal breaker but it is DEFINITELY a bummer that the 4K mode on this has to crop even more than it already does. Really hope we can see something like an AF200 engineer the sensor specifically for video and not require the extra crop in 4K mode.

Speedbooster does help for sure - but on the wide end, there are limited options for good glass to use the speedbooster with, and it does nothing for native M43 glass (and sometimes having fast autofocus on the M43 wides is particularly nice for steadicam work, etc.)
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. I am interested in the s35 frame because the wides for m4/3 do get soft, are hard to nail focus, give up light and suffer distortion. It's hard at native m4/3 to get the wides to "pop" as Osslund says above. That has been my experience, also.

I want to use a 25mm lens as a wide with no distortion. I just got the speedbooster yesterday and need to test on my AF100, which I really like. I'm very psyched about the speed booster and if it performs, I'm going to continue to consider m4/3 but if it is a compromise then my next camera is s35. I have little to no interest in FF at this time.

I am in the process of swapping out my lenses, selling off the m/43 and 4/3 glass. I am replacing the beautiful Voigtlander 25mm with a Zeiss ZF 25mm f2.0. The Voigtlander is like the best looking girlfriend I've ever had but the relationship is ending ;) I will miss her! All the rest of my glass are Duclos modded Zeiss ZFs now (25, 35, 50, 85). I have replaced the Oly 11 - 22 and the SLRMagic 12 with a Tokina 11 - 16.

The first still tests on the GH2 look good for the Tokina, although the Oly doesn't give up anything in terms of sharpness. The thing is I can use this tokina and the ZFs on S35 cameras and renting bodies has become something I need to be able to do now. Plus they all match a little better now. When Voigtlander makes a set of s35 cinema lenses, I'm selling my car to get them!
 
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pulpfiction007 said:
Full frame is the "standard" in the photography world, which I guess would be correct here since we're talking about a stills camera. I just think sometimes people need to be reminded that M 4/3 is very close to Super 35 film. You say everybody understands, but clearly they don't...because they constantly think M 4/3 isn't wide enough, shallow enough, yadda yadda yadda. And that might be true in taking PHOTOS compared to an MK3, but when shooting video it's a couple of steps forward or back to match s35...THE "STANDARD" for movies.
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Well, yes, the standard for movies is s35, but s35 glass is VERY EXPENSIVE!
The only reason I want FF (or FF-equivalent-through-speedbooster) is that my lens set is designed for FF. If you have great glass for a smaller sensor, then it's a much better option for you than it is for me.

Yes, m43 is not far from APS-C, but it's just enough difference to be a problem. If I put on a speedbooster, I get 1.08x crop from APS-C and 1.42x crop from m43. My 24mm becomes 26mm-equivalent on the former, but 34mm-equivalent on the latter. Huge difference!
On the original BMCC, and in the GH4 when shooting 4K, the crop factor with a speedbooster is 1.63x, and my 24mm becomes a 39mm-equivalent.
 
Is there a way to white balance like a video camera with the GH3 (and GH4)? Unlike the Canon DSLRs where you need to take an image or dial it in manually. Thanks
 
Osslund said:
To me it's hard to get an image that pops from m4/3 cameras. Technically they are great and usually packed with features but the pop just isn't there. I doubt a 4k resolution will change that. You certainly can use the F0.95 lenses to squeeze as much cream from m4/3 as possible but still in comparison with S35 cameras the sensor and technology behind it fades. When you use the ultra shallow DOF lenses on m4/3 it feels kinda weird to have that much shallow DOF and to me it's hard to find at good balance that looks natural. On S35 cameras this is very easy giving me a decent shallow DOF that just feels right.

In a professional world with a great gaffer any camera can look good but it's to addictive to have a camera that delivers right away even without the high budget or a team. There are many great examples of videos from m4/3 cameras that look great but it's when you do the fast and dirty work that reveals the pop-less image.

I and many others are used to the now classic 5D look. Technically not good at all until the 5Dmk3 came but the image look and pop is there. I feel that no matter what kind of technology Panasonic puts in m4/3 it still wont touch S35 or full frame cameras from the likes of Canon and Sony.
Click to expand...

Just depends on what you're shooting. I don't want that look, personally, as I'm shooting landscapes. DOF is far down the list for me with the GH4.
 
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