pana af-100 vs. sony-f3

[Kenny_G]

So what do you mean by this? I have to say I am feeling a little offended. Do you mean that the people gathered here cannot believe the answers we give? That we are lying about things just so that you will buy one? Of course I have a vested interest, I do want people to buy the camera but not if it is the wrong camera for you.

Thanks,

Jan

Dear Jan.
Panasonic can say whatever they want or whatever they please; it is your policy.
What I want is spent money on things I can affort and that gives me the expected quality for my money.
The AF100 is imo een very good product for my money.
On the otherhand I like to spent some more money on a little better version of the AF100,
call it the AF200, with better S/N i.e. higher ISO with less noise,
10 bits 4-2-2 out and a higher bit rate on the avchd h.264 codec.
and perhaps a 4/3 AF-lens with motor zoom from 14-280mm/f2.0 to f4.0
3000 dollars for the lens and 8000 for the body would be a very good price)

In the past i had this issue with Panasonic and P2 while it was technically possible to use
removable SSD-units or even standard 2.5" hd, instead of the mighty expensive P2 cards,
Panasonic insists that P2 was better for us. IMO it was only better for the bankaccount of Panasonic.
What we see is that Panasonic seems to have understand that SD-cards are just as good to do the job,
while Sony still want's to ripp us off with the Express-card and the absurd high priced F3.
I wish that this AF100-concept keeps evolving to benifit us all.

 

[TheDingo]

...call it the AF200, with better S/N i.e. higher ISO with less noise, 10 bits 4-2-2 out and a higher bit rate on the avchd h.264 codec and perhaps a 4/3 AF-lens with motor zoom from 14-280mm/f2.0 to f4.0

3000 dollars for the lens and 8000 for the body would be a very good price

...Now what happens if the feature list you ask for translates to $10,000 for the body and $6,000 for the lens?

$16,000 wouldn't be a problem for people considering the Sony F3 or RED gear, but it would pretty much make this camera part of the "professionals only" club.

It's a very big deal that the AF-100 is a $5K camera, and the main reason why it's worth putting up with some compromises for many of us. It's the best deal going for 5 grand.

 

[LuckyStudio 13]

If you are not a pro, why are u buying a $5k cam ? :/

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

In the past i had this issue with Panasonic and P2 while it was technically possible to use
removable SSD-units or even standard 2.5" hd, instead of the mighty expensive P2 cards,
Panasonic insists that P2 was better for us. IMO it was only better for the bankaccount of Panasonic.
What we see is that Panasonic seems to have understand that SD-cards are just as good to do the job,

I couldn't disagree more. I have NBEVER lost a clip on ANYTHING recorded to P2 cards, but I have already lost several to SD cards.

P2 cards were the price they were because they are robust and bulletproof.

If they didn't fit your particular budget then fine, but don't discount the technology just because you couldn't afford it.

 

[Kenny_G]

I couldn't disagree more. I have NBEVER lost a clip on ANYTHING recorded to P2 cards, but I have already lost several to SD cards.

P2 cards were the price they were because they are robust and bulletproof.

If they didn't fit your particular budget then fine, but don't discount the technology just because you couldn't afford it.

So what you are saying is that the use of sd-cards on the AF100 is a big mistake by panasonic?????
If I read you right, you like a version of the AF100 with P2 cards?

 

[TheDingo]

If you are not a pro, why are u buying a $5k cam ? :/

Most of the indy folks I know shoot part-time for themselves and hold down a regular day job. They make next to nothing with their films, but it's their own personal labor of love. A $5k camera is definitely affordable to some of them.

Myself, I shoot mostly small scale training/corporate work, so the budgets vary quite a bit depending on the size of the client. The only person really concerned with technical quality is me, so for many clients I could still be shooting SD video and I wouldn't get any complaints, as very few clients are set up for blu-ray or HD network distribution. ( everything ends up as either SD intranet videos or SD DVD discs )

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

So what you are saying is that the use of sd-cards on the AF100 is a big mistake by panasonic?????
If I read you right, you like a version of the AF100 with P2 cards?

Don't put words in my mouth.

No, using SD cards is not a mistake. It was a way to hit a target price point for the camera.

Would I like a 10 bit 4:2:2 P2 camera with the AF-100 Sensor?

Damn right I would.

But I am not naive enough to think it would be anywhere near the same price as the AF-100.

And as long as the camera continues to give me these kind of images, I am more than happy with it.

 

[szimmer]

And as long as the camera continues to give me these kind of images, I am more than happy with it.

Wow! That is a great image. What lens did you use? What kind of lighting setup?

Thanks for sharing.

Simon

 

[PaPa]

Don't put words in my mouth.

No, using SD cards is not a mistake. It was a way to hit a target price point for the camera.

Would I like a 10 bit 4:2:2 P2 camera with the AF-100 Sensor?

Damn right I would.

But I am not naive enough to think it would be anywhere near the same price as the AF-100.

And as long as the camera continues to give me these kind of images, I am more than happy with it.

That just looks fantastic. Wonderful really.

 

[astigmatic]

Tell that to people like me that have over $50,000 invested in super16 lenses that are now basically thermoses - I wish that the tech didn't jump to this chip size without also considering a super16-size option. I know, I know, DOF is God this year... But, will that go out of date in 6 months?

YUP there's the scarlet around the corner, but anyways you just reinforced my point. Save this type of hyper scrutiny, research, and care towards the lenses you choose to buy.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have to admit, I think the whole 10 bit thing is way out of control. This is a forum about a $5,000 camera. There are plenty of $30,000 industry standard cameras that are 8-bit. It would help to see this camera for what it is and also see your career station for what it is as well! This camera is an effort from Panasonic to offer/sell an affordable tool for filmakers. It happens to make great images for less than the cost of many cameras before it. To then say how the camera is not good enough because it only outputs 8 bit is a bit like whining! There is no free lunch! If it was the super camera it would not be an affordable tool for filmakers anymore

About the career station. This is not meant to be judgemental at all. What I mean to say is if you really need 10 bit then your budget will be more than what is required for the AF-100. Another camera could be used If you want 10 bit then that is a different story. We all want things.

Are people really going to make the case that 4:2:2 8-bit is not enough to get great images? You can't count the number of great things that have been shot on 4:2:2 8-bit...

End of rant.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Wow! That is a great image. What lens did you use? What kind of lighting setup?

Thanks for sharing.

Simon

Thanks.

2x2' Bi Color LED with 216 taped over it blasting through a 5' flexfill diffusion disk from camera right.

Arri 650 fresnel on a dimmer hitting a bead board on a c-stand over the talents shoulder for a rim light.

Another bead board just out of frame camera left for fill.

I have a pic of the light setup and will upload it shortly.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

And the funny thing is, his herringbone-patterned jacket would have played HELL on a DSLR, and the AF-100 handled it with class.

I love this camera.

 

[szimmer]

Thanks.

2x2' Bi Color LED with 216 taped over it blasting through a 5' flexfill diffusion disk from camera right.

Arri 650 fresnel on a dimmer hitting a bead board on a c-stand over the talents shoulder for a rim light.

Another bead board just out of frame camera left for fill.

I have a pic of the light setup and will upload it shortly.

Thank you for the information. A photo would be very beneficial.

Thanks again,

Simon

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Here it is:

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for sharing Matt. A lot can be learned from that one photo.

 

[Steve Kahn]

Thanks for sharing Matt. A lot can be learned from that one photo.

+1

That is great. Thanks for sharing.

 

[szimmer]

Here it is:

Wow! I am jealous!

Great job!

Simon

 

[hscully]

That looks fantastic. Thanks for sharing the set up.

 

[Bruce196]

Maybe I have missed it but what lens were you using for the shot. Your set up certainly demonstrates that if done properly the A101 can produce very good pictures.