F3: Pair of used F3's for 10K or one F5? A & B cam dielmna
- Thread starter Geebri
- Start date
starcentral
Veteran
Geebri, you may consider to upgrade your FS100 to an FS700 in the event that you want a more affordable 4k RAW solution even if you have to pay for the firmware update, HXS and AXS modules. Also it is neither confirmed nor denied but it may very well be possible to record 4k 12-bit raw from the FS700 going straight to a 3rd party 4k recorded such as AJA Quad. This is something that not even the F5 will ever do since it has no 4k outputs on it period. The F55 does (good for onset monitoring in 4k, etc...)
Ned said it here or somewhere else before but these low prices for the F3 may only be temporary while owners and rental houses upgrade so you may want to take advantage of buying a F3 in the very short term near future.
Ned said it here or somewhere else before but these low prices for the F3 may only be temporary while owners and rental houses upgrade so you may want to take advantage of buying a F3 in the very short term near future.
You know, if Sony would put S-Log in the FS700 it could indeed become an interesting camera and even make me overlook it's stupid conception (form factor, some nonsense features) and get me to buy one. But they will never do that, to protect their more expensive cameras.
The F3 prices are dropping more and more and even got me thinking of buying one. But I'm not sure I could put up with it's quirks. The same quirks that made me pass on it the first time around, although back then the S-log option wasn't available and the price was a very different story, which I didn't feel it was worth it. These quirks are IR contamination which seems to be as bad as the EX1/EX3, no slowmo in 1080p, and I feel it lacks some serious professional features for it's price range. It doesn't even have a waveform or vectorscope. That it only has 2 NDs is a bummer but not a deal breaker. But I think for the price it definitely could have 3. But the S-Log is sure tempting.
The F3 prices are dropping more and more and even got me thinking of buying one. But I'm not sure I could put up with it's quirks. The same quirks that made me pass on it the first time around, although back then the S-log option wasn't available and the price was a very different story, which I didn't feel it was worth it. These quirks are IR contamination which seems to be as bad as the EX1/EX3, no slowmo in 1080p, and I feel it lacks some serious professional features for it's price range. It doesn't even have a waveform or vectorscope. That it only has 2 NDs is a bummer but not a deal breaker. But I think for the price it definitely could have 3. But the S-Log is sure tempting.
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starcentral
Veteran
I believe you can use bend the knee like crazy using cinegamma4 as a base on the FS700 and come somewhat close to what the S-LOG curve. Not the same, but still a highly flat profile with boosted mid-tones.
As for F3 prices I would buy one fast if that's your plan. I like to believe the price flux is only temporary and will shift back to where it should be after folks are done ugrading their F3's but who knows.
The F3 does have 1080p slowmo but only over dual-link. I typically shoot 60p in 720p then blow up 50% in post and no one is the wiser. True no WM or vectorscope but at least it has a built in spot meter so you can use that on grey card, white card, or even skin and get an IRE readout. Still pretty good.
All of these cameras are missing something to us, always.
As for F3 prices I would buy one fast if that's your plan. I like to believe the price flux is only temporary and will shift back to where it should be after folks are done ugrading their F3's but who knows.
The F3 does have 1080p slowmo but only over dual-link. I typically shoot 60p in 720p then blow up 50% in post and no one is the wiser. True no WM or vectorscope but at least it has a built in spot meter so you can use that on grey card, white card, or even skin and get an IRE readout. Still pretty good.
All of these cameras are missing something to us, always.
What do you mean? Lost you.
That was never my plan. I'm just getting tempted by the low prices.
Sorry, I should have said overcrank, as in variable frame rates over 30p in 1080p. Like shooting 48fps, 56fps, etc in 1080p.
But somebody told me the F3 also does 60p in 1440x1080?
Nothing beats the speed, accuracy and comfort of a waveform for exposure, and a vectorscope is very useful to take color casting off of your shot.
starcentral
Veteran
FS700 has cine gammas, just like F3 and they move middle grey around depending on the scene your shooting and what part of image you want to protect. (see: http://www.starcentral.ca/Sony PMW.pdf)
Cinneganma4 has highest middle grey value and you can boost it even more by creating a custom picture profile and adjust additional settings. So FS700 might not have SLOG but still has powerful curve options that can produce similar effects of LOG or flat picture profiles.
The F3 has lots of modes i'd have to check for you.
About IR contamination I don't know much about it or what i'd be looking for.
Cinneganma4 has highest middle grey value and you can boost it even more by creating a custom picture profile and adjust additional settings. So FS700 might not have SLOG but still has powerful curve options that can produce similar effects of LOG or flat picture profiles.
The F3 has lots of modes i'd have to check for you.
About IR contamination I don't know much about it or what i'd be looking for.
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Wow, I don't know how I could live without my wave monitors and focus peaking on my C100. I can't believe a camera being sold for 15k would not have these things. I guess we are really being spoiled now. I can remember when it was great when the viewfinder on your 16mm had ground glass, lol.
starcentral
Veteran
Peaking I could not live without nor would I ever buy a camera without it.
The built in spot meter is as good as waveform monitor, at least when you put the box over top of your grey card, or skin, or other area there is no mistake is chance of misinterpretation. Personally I use a light meter to set my middle grey, which requires no in-camera exposure tools and handy for checking ratios. You have to know how to use it properly before cursing it and learning to trust it.
The built in spot meter is as good as waveform monitor, at least when you put the box over top of your grey card, or skin, or other area there is no mistake is chance of misinterpretation. Personally I use a light meter to set my middle grey, which requires no in-camera exposure tools and handy for checking ratios. You have to know how to use it properly before cursing it and learning to trust it.
The curious thing about the whole price plummeting phenomenon is that it doesn't seem to be impacting the FS700, which not only still being sold for the same or even more than used F3s in the used market, but they are also hard to come by 2nd hand.
I guess FS700 owners may have less reasons to ditch their cameras than F3 and FS100 owners.
I guess FS700 owners may have less reasons to ditch their cameras than F3 and FS100 owners.
I think it's the possibility of updating the camera to 4K and RAW which allows it to keep a spark of life.
After having worked with the two this week, there is absolutely no contest in terms of which the clear winner is for image quality.
The F3.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yer averarge F3 er is a pro maybe with broacst clients pissed off with lugging a recorder - they want an F5 or C300
Yer average 700 owner is a semi pro who's clients are blown away with 240FPS and dont need 50MPS
S
Yer average 700 owner is a semi pro who's clients are blown away with 240FPS and dont need 50MPS
S
I would say this apply to FS100 owners as well. So why is the FS100 prices plummeting too?
I think it may be more what yoclay says combined with the 240fps.
Comparing FS700 to F3 S-Log?
Because the sensor in the FS700 is supposed to be actually better.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Because if you fight an FS100 for a year for highlights and no ND you want an FS700 real bad
Actually Im an FS100 owner and didnt particualrly take to the FS700 - there was something floppy and unresponsive about it - I think its a delay to an external monitor, certainly significant in slomo modes, the FS100 is pretty tight to shoot, and nice big pixels for lo light - an under rated joy in some ways..
The FS100 has be superceded by the C100 as the bucket shop S35 with XLR
The 700 hasnt really been superceded in its class - which is a tool to create ultra impressive web content
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Grug
Veteran
Perhaps when we can get the full 4K raw data from the FS700, with access to all of the dynamic range the sensor is capable of - we'll then see the FS700's image quality leapfrog the F3. For the moment though SLOGged F3 is pretty much the closest camera on the market to the Alexa's 'look' (Epic and F65 have quite different looks to them), and from the FS700 footage I've worked with so far, the F3 is still in another league (when in 10-bit SLOG).