FS5: Paid RAW Upgrade in June 500€ / 600$

The FS5 will "work" when using the FS700 RAW record settings, but the cameras are different and there are differences in the signal. So the results may not appear correct. This is especially true if recording RAW->ProRes. Just a warning. You may not get the results your expect. And please do not evaluate the performance of the camera in RAW based on using this setting.
 
RayB said:
You mentioned no high frame rate UHD and 4k but unclear if it works with the buffered 4k slow motion on the FS5? Didn't expect to get high frame rate in 4k but really hoped to at least get the buffered 120 UHD to the original Shogun
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The raw update allows up to 120fps buffered 4K on the FS5. But the original shogun won't record it. I suspect that only will work with the Odyssey.

To be clear you can only record 4K 24/30 ok the original Shogun from the Raw output to ProRes. Atomos claims its compatible with the FS5 as is. It seems to look fine to me.
 
Thank you, I figured the camera would output the buffer at 60 frames per second so the Shogun wouldn't work, kinda hoped (dreamed) somehow it might just for the burst mode... Guess my Shogun is obsolete before Atomos even finished it :(
 
alex1 said:
How is the RAW on the FS7? I suspect the FS5 RAW will look similar?
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most who came from a FS700/7Q supposed the RAW would be the same on the FS7 which was a wrong assumption as the Fs700/7Q was great at least since firmware 05.2015 of the Odyssey. Unfortunately the FS7 raw recorded with XDCA/7Q is not worth the effort compared to the internal 10bit XAVC. If your interested in FS5 raw you better hope it's similar to the FS700/7Q. As for now we do not know.
 
wschmid said:
Great, thank you for this first Report.

Do you have by now some test footage? Especially about the question if banding takes place in the darks as it was reported for the FS7 raw Output?
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Here's the little test footage I shot. I saw no banding, just noise. The internal XAVC-L showed no banding either though in this scene and I heavily graded it. [I take that back. The upper part of the frame where the sky is clearly shows banding in the XAVC but not in the Raw sourced ProRes.]


https://vimeo.com/169471816

Here's what I wrote about it:

This is a little test I shot between work on the FS5 with the CBKZ-FS5RIF RAW upgrade key ($600 USD) into FW 2.0. I recorded it on a Atomos Shogun (original) at 24fps DCI 4K with an Slog 3 profile. The lens used was a Canon 24-105 F4 on a Metabones Speedbooster T making it a 2.8 equivalent. I shot with Auto ND on at +1.5 exposure correction.

This was relatively low light. To expose the sunset properly I had to under expose the shadows. Only a few shots at the end have no ND applied.

What do I think? It’s interesting. It’s clear as day that the converted Raw holds much more picture information. Try as I might, the same shot shot at the same time in the internal XAVC just didn’t have nearly as much detail in the shadows as the Raw did. It wasn’t even close.

However that comes at the cost of noise. I suppose it’s like Raw recording on a stills camera; you have to process out the noise in post to your own liking, which can get rid of detail. As you can see there is a fair amount of noise in the converted-from-raw ProRes shadows. I had to knock the shadows down to get rid of them.

The other surprise is how well the XAVC-L internal recording looks in a scene like this. I was very surprised. It doesn’t have as much picture detail but it’s quite clean; it’s obvious FW 1.11 fixed this camera’s faults.

Consider that the Shogun only records up to 30fps. If you have a Shogun Inferno or an Odyssey 7Q+, you can actually record up to 60fps in 4K with this upgrade, as well as 120 fps bursts of 4 seconds in 4K (even the FS7 doesn’t do that), and 240 fps continuous 2K. None of this is available with the current Shogun.

Overall I’d say you probably don’t need this upgrade unless you need a lot of detail or the aforementioned high frame rates in 4K. The internal XAVC, which was heavily graded with a ton of saturation added, looks just great. In fact it is less noisy. On the other hand, the Raw offers more picture detail and can be pushed further without falling apart. Also, while noisier, the noise is “clean” grain like noise (it looks green here because I boosted the saturation 200%), whereas the internal codec starts to macro block.

It’s very close though. I don’t know. What do you think? Is it worth it?

PS Due to lack of time I encoded at about 20 Mbit. It should have been 30, but this will give you as solid idea of how it looks nonetheless. And keep in mind... I've never shot any FSRAW before so this is my first experience.
 
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I think that it's not even close. It looks like a film camera in RAW. Thank you so much for taking the time test and post.
 
I agree. I imagine with a higher nitrate encode or a cDNG file it would be even more apparent. Can't wait to see something on the Odyssey system when they release their next update. Going to pull the trigger on the 7q+ next month as this looks to be a fantastic combo.

Great at scene and grade too! Shows you can really push the colors without them falling apart like most 8-bit.
 
Thank you very much for this first and very interesting test. For me it is quite clear that x-log but also raw must have more noise, since the footage is less processed compared to the internal recorded footage. It is a pitty that you loose all the lowlight Information in the graded footage. I am not sure how far it would have been possible to process that in the postpro - and I would have liked to play a littel bit with such an original footage from the Shogun.

Another disadvantage is that we have that in 8bit only - now after the H.264 compression that you have uploaded as "original" to vimeo.

Would it be possible that you upload a very short piece of an original ProRes 10bit 422 footage from the Shogun? To allow us to play with that footage?
 
I think sony does some low quality noise reduction in order to compress the images for internal storage. If you're going to shoot RAW it means that you can do your own noise reduction to compensate. I would try Neat Video.
If you need quick and dirty you always have internal recording. If you're doing a project that's going to be screened in a theater you can get the quality by going RAW.
 
So when we record RAW, or RAW converted to Prores, there's going to be a bunch of noise in the image we'll have to remove in post?
 
I'n assuming the FS5 RAW to Odyssey 7Q+ RAW-ProRes will be implemented in a similar way as it is with the FS700 (the only addition I see is having SLOG3 with the FS5, but there may be other differences I'm unaware of). I have that set-up with the FS700 and while you do get extra noise compared to internal recordings, if you use the expose-higher-and-bring-down-in-post method I find the noise is acceptable, often not noticeable. Although it is more noticeable at 200/240fps.
 
pythonman said:
I'n assuming the FS5 RAW to Odyssey 7Q+ RAW-ProRes will be implemented in a similar way as it is with the FS700 (the only addition I see is having SLOG3 with the FS5, but there may be other differences I'm unaware of). I have that set-up with the FS700 and while you do get extra noise compared to internal recordings, if you use the expose-higher-and-bring-down-in-post method I find the noise is acceptable, often not noticeable. Although it is more noticeable at 200/240fps.
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That scene was exposed around +1.5 to +2. The noise wasn't horrible in the shadows but probably needed a denoise pass if I wanted to use all that shadow detail. Because I was short on rendering time I just crushed them in the grade. But the info was there; on the internal recorded version there was much less to work with in the shadows. I mean there was information but not nearly as much. There was also artifacting as to be expected.
 
Have you seen my question if it is possible to upload some small pieces of original ungraded footage?
 
I just recorded a bit of 4k RAW to the Convergent O7+ in CDNG mode. These are some of the best files I've seen from a digital camera, and I work with a lot of Alexa proRes material. The color depth and detail are absolutely incredible. I played around with a DNG in photoshop and in Resolve. Both have full control over color temperature and exposure in post. It's like shooting with a digital still camera in RAW, or grading CG that was rendered to EXR. Absolutely incredible.
 
Thanks Sam. I just did the RAW upgrade to my FS5 today. Looking at going with the Shogun Inferno. Your testing has me stoked more than ever. Thanks.

SamEd said:
I just recorded a bit of 4k RAW to the Convergent O7+ in CDNG mode. These are some of the best files I've seen from a digital camera, and I work with a lot of Alexa proRes material. The color depth and detail are absolutely incredible. I played around with a DNG in photoshop and in Resolve. Both have full control over color temperature and exposure in post. It's like shooting with a digital still camera in RAW, or grading CG that was rendered to EXR. Absolutely incredible.
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SamEd said:
I just recorded a bit of 4k RAW to the Convergent O7+ in CDNG mode. These are some of the best files I've seen from a digital camera, and I work with a lot of Alexa proRes material. The color depth and detail are absolutely incredible. I played around with a DNG in photoshop and in Resolve. Both have full control over color temperature and exposure in post. It's like shooting with a digital still camera in RAW, or grading CG that was rendered to EXR. Absolutely incredible.
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Music to my ears. Really using all of my will power not to order the 7Q+ today after their update. Just need to wait till I get paid on a project next month...
 
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