Jarek Zabczynski
Veteran
With 64 gig cards around the corner the Firestore is soon to be pointless. Kill it with fire I say.
p2 vs firestore
- Thread starter PaPa
- Start date
Shane Ross
Veteran
Because most of the time we shoot with the Varicam, and that only shoots 720p to tape. And we like the variable frame rate and the ability to shoot great slow motion, and you can ONLY do that in DVCPRO HD as 720p...even with the P2 cameras. Also, SPACE SAVINGS. Since 720p24 is under half of the data rate of 1080i29.97, we save a ton of hard drive space when editing. And we always edit full resolution, so this is crucial.
Jim Anderson
Well-known member
I recently was shooting on the HVX to a Firestore FS-100 in 720/30P and during an important interview, the red roll indicator in the view finder went off.
I was careful not to jiggle or move the sensitive 4 pin connection and even had gaffer tape holding it squarely in the receptacle as a strain relief. This happened 2 or 3 times over the next few hours. When I attempted to off-load
at the end of the day, the contents folder claimed to have an error (probably due to a corrupt file) and wouldn't let me transfer. I had to open the folder and drag the files 10 at a time starting at the last clip and working back to the first files. Sure enough, the first few clips were corrupt from probably being interrupted during recording. I rebuilt the contents folder in the back-up HDD to restore the structure and then backed it up 2 more times. Now the FCP editor that is cutting the doc cannot log and capture many clips because of errors. I imported all the clips I could into PPro CS3 with AHD installed and after deleting the corrupted clips (which were luckily brief test records and bars) I had success with most of the footage and only lost about 8-12 minutes over a whole day of shooting. The FCP editor had told me because of spanned clips, FCP wouldn't log and capture 2 critical files. I now have to export to tape (DVCPRO-HD) the 2 clips that FCP couldn't open as a work-around. Some advice I have is, until panny or a 3rd party supplier come up with a 4 pin to 6 pin adapter that mounts on the HVX, you are risking this same problem. I have alot of confidence in the P2 card system now and have never had a corruption issue with them. I recently purchased Shot Put P2 and the in-expensive Acer laptop that was mentioned in Barry Green's thread. It can copy the P2 card contents to up to 3 drives at once. Sorry for the long thread. Jim
www.southafricamovie.com
I was careful not to jiggle or move the sensitive 4 pin connection and even had gaffer tape holding it squarely in the receptacle as a strain relief. This happened 2 or 3 times over the next few hours. When I attempted to off-load
at the end of the day, the contents folder claimed to have an error (probably due to a corrupt file) and wouldn't let me transfer. I had to open the folder and drag the files 10 at a time starting at the last clip and working back to the first files. Sure enough, the first few clips were corrupt from probably being interrupted during recording. I rebuilt the contents folder in the back-up HDD to restore the structure and then backed it up 2 more times. Now the FCP editor that is cutting the doc cannot log and capture many clips because of errors. I imported all the clips I could into PPro CS3 with AHD installed and after deleting the corrupted clips (which were luckily brief test records and bars) I had success with most of the footage and only lost about 8-12 minutes over a whole day of shooting. The FCP editor had told me because of spanned clips, FCP wouldn't log and capture 2 critical files. I now have to export to tape (DVCPRO-HD) the 2 clips that FCP couldn't open as a work-around. Some advice I have is, until panny or a 3rd party supplier come up with a 4 pin to 6 pin adapter that mounts on the HVX, you are risking this same problem. I have alot of confidence in the P2 card system now and have never had a corruption issue with them. I recently purchased Shot Put P2 and the in-expensive Acer laptop that was mentioned in Barry Green's thread. It can copy the P2 card contents to up to 3 drives at once. Sorry for the long thread. Jim
www.southafricamovie.com
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Worst case cenario.
While shooting a music video in the bavarian alps the firestore fell of the camera that was on a crane (my AC haven´t locked the hot shoe screw propperly) . It dangled - together with the craddle and swivel mount - at the FW cable for a while, putting much strain on the 4 pin socket.
Despite the shock of "bungie jumping", despite the stress on the sockets, cable and plugs, "dancing on air" for quite a while, it keeps recording and I lost not one frame, even after it finaly fall down in the snow.
I was putting it back on the camera and kept shooting the rest of the day.
Maybe sheer luck.
Frank
While shooting a music video in the bavarian alps the firestore fell of the camera that was on a crane (my AC haven´t locked the hot shoe screw propperly) . It dangled - together with the craddle and swivel mount - at the FW cable for a while, putting much strain on the 4 pin socket.
Despite the shock of "bungie jumping", despite the stress on the sockets, cable and plugs, "dancing on air" for quite a while, it keeps recording and I lost not one frame, even after it finaly fall down in the snow.
I was putting it back on the camera and kept shooting the rest of the day.
Maybe sheer luck.
Frank
Last edited:
Papa. I shoot firestore and p2. I use firestore most often for long form, where I have to be ready to shoot all day (no time to offload).
I shoot p2 when Im doing more narrative style shooting.
FYI I use the FS with the 500 (6pin fw connection and no battery issue as I plug it in to the cameras d-tap). Ive never had a problem and its worked well for me.
Id prefer to work with p2, because the workflow is a little more seemless and the cards are hardier (yes, no issues yet for me with fs, but its still an extra connection you need to worry about).
My fs is securely mounted at the back of my 500 with velcro tape, so I also dont have the issue of finding a place for it, or having it sticking up in the air on the mount like a smaller format camera.
I shoot p2 when Im doing more narrative style shooting.
FYI I use the FS with the 500 (6pin fw connection and no battery issue as I plug it in to the cameras d-tap). Ive never had a problem and its worked well for me.
Id prefer to work with p2, because the workflow is a little more seemless and the cards are hardier (yes, no issues yet for me with fs, but its still an extra connection you need to worry about).
My fs is securely mounted at the back of my 500 with velcro tape, so I also dont have the issue of finding a place for it, or having it sticking up in the air on the mount like a smaller format camera.
cant vote cause I use both
cant vote cause I use both
I use both Fs 100 and P2.....FS-100 is monted on my back weight of DVRIG Pro so no noise issue. Yes cable, but that goes for all those folks with external monitors and what not too. I love the workflow speed increase, the storage space! Seems its made for the HVX.
P2 = nice, small, expensive as platinum, kludgy with duel-adapter ( boy I hate how I have to reboot OSX 10.5.5 each time I removed the duel):angry:
I am simply going to use both: the P2 for run&gun stuff and the FS-100 for the more relaxed stuff.
If prices of P2 drop in 2009 I might get a 64 GB but I doubt it will happen too soon.
cant vote cause I use both
I use both Fs 100 and P2.....FS-100 is monted on my back weight of DVRIG Pro so no noise issue. Yes cable, but that goes for all those folks with external monitors and what not too. I love the workflow speed increase, the storage space! Seems its made for the HVX.
P2 = nice, small, expensive as platinum, kludgy with duel-adapter ( boy I hate how I have to reboot OSX 10.5.5 each time I removed the duel):angry:
I am simply going to use both: the P2 for run&gun stuff and the FS-100 for the more relaxed stuff.
If prices of P2 drop in 2009 I might get a 64 GB but I doubt it will happen too soon.
I've had the HVX200 for about 2 years and I shoot pretty much everything to the Firestore. In fact, I don't own any P2 cards. When I first got the camera, only 4GB cards were available. Since I shoot long form run and gun, Firestore was really the only option. I've had a few problems, but I've learned to work with the Firestore, and I still use it all the time.
Pros of FS100:
- Recording time: much longer than P2
- Cost: much lower vs. P2
- Convenience: no downloading as you go. I just download once at the end of the day, usually to my editing computer. Using "Organize P2" is no problem, just press the button and wait a few seconds.
Cons:
- Does not tolerate vibration well. I found out the hard way and lost some footage. Some vibration is okay - like walking or riding in a car or boat. But not an air boat or souped up airplane. I would rent P2 in these cases.
- Firewire connector on the HVX200 is crappy. I've long since used a rubber band to hold the cable to the camera, and have not had problems. (Knock on wood).
- Belt clip can use some improvements. I have dropped the FS100 a few times while kneeling down. But to its credit, no damage was done. I did lose the clip I was shooting, but that's all. I've actually dropped the FS100 in about an inch of water. Opened it up, dried out the inside with a hair dryer, and recovered all the files. It still works like a champ.
- It takes a minute or two longer to set up, but that's not really a problem.
I don't understand the complaints about noise. Yes the fan makes some noise, but I usually wear the FS100 on my belt or on the back of my DVrig Pro, and it's never been a problem. I rarely use the on-camera mic any way.
No problems with battery life either. Their extended life battery actually lasts a lot longer than the camera battery.
Pros of FS100:
- Recording time: much longer than P2
- Cost: much lower vs. P2
- Convenience: no downloading as you go. I just download once at the end of the day, usually to my editing computer. Using "Organize P2" is no problem, just press the button and wait a few seconds.
Cons:
- Does not tolerate vibration well. I found out the hard way and lost some footage. Some vibration is okay - like walking or riding in a car or boat. But not an air boat or souped up airplane. I would rent P2 in these cases.
- Firewire connector on the HVX200 is crappy. I've long since used a rubber band to hold the cable to the camera, and have not had problems. (Knock on wood).
- Belt clip can use some improvements. I have dropped the FS100 a few times while kneeling down. But to its credit, no damage was done. I did lose the clip I was shooting, but that's all. I've actually dropped the FS100 in about an inch of water. Opened it up, dried out the inside with a hair dryer, and recovered all the files. It still works like a champ.
- It takes a minute or two longer to set up, but that's not really a problem.
I don't understand the complaints about noise. Yes the fan makes some noise, but I usually wear the FS100 on my belt or on the back of my DVrig Pro, and it's never been a problem. I rarely use the on-camera mic any way.
No problems with battery life either. Their extended life battery actually lasts a lot longer than the camera battery.
I am a Firestore Lover. heres why.
1. I am not an indy guy. I do run and gun news reel type shooting. Usually 6 hours at time.
2. I have no time to dump.
3. the only problem I ever had was caused directly by me.
Most guys I know are also news gatherers or sports shooting... All of them are on Firestores on JVC's, Sonys, Panos, etc.
Now for the cost of a few P2 cards.... Last time I checked ... waaay more than a fire store. I may be wrong at this point. I gave up waiting for the switch to make sense monetarily.
I had hoped to switch to the P2 workflow long ago... waiting for the prices to drop has given sony time to perfect the EX3. I hate to say it but Im sure that will be my next rig. I love the picture I get from my 200 and 170's, But alas..... In my world the sonys are dominant.
1. I am not an indy guy. I do run and gun news reel type shooting. Usually 6 hours at time.
2. I have no time to dump.
3. the only problem I ever had was caused directly by me.
Most guys I know are also news gatherers or sports shooting... All of them are on Firestores on JVC's, Sonys, Panos, etc.
Now for the cost of a few P2 cards.... Last time I checked ... waaay more than a fire store. I may be wrong at this point. I gave up waiting for the switch to make sense monetarily.
I had hoped to switch to the P2 workflow long ago... waiting for the prices to drop has given sony time to perfect the EX3. I hate to say it but Im sure that will be my next rig. I love the picture I get from my 200 and 170's, But alas..... In my world the sonys are dominant.
chris f
Veteran
I've got an upcoming shoot, all in studio interviews, tripod set up, no movement, no run and gun, audio coming in from a lavaliere far away from the firestore.....
I was going to rent a HVX200 from the rental house I use with P2 cards only to find out that getting them on to my White Macbook would be a huge hassle.
The studio I'm using also rents a HVX200 set up with the Firestore which sounds much more appealing to me for various reasons, the largest being we can do the whole shoot without having to download the footage until the end.
My big question though is: Will the Quicktime file format that the Firestorm does allow me to edit those files in Final Cut 5.0?
I plan on upgrading to FCP6 in the near future, but if I can edit the Firestorm files in FCP 5.0 I can edit this project right now.
**Edit** Just to be clear, I'm talking FCP 5.0, not 5.1.1
I was going to rent a HVX200 from the rental house I use with P2 cards only to find out that getting them on to my White Macbook would be a huge hassle.
The studio I'm using also rents a HVX200 set up with the Firestore which sounds much more appealing to me for various reasons, the largest being we can do the whole shoot without having to download the footage until the end.
My big question though is: Will the Quicktime file format that the Firestorm does allow me to edit those files in Final Cut 5.0?
I plan on upgrading to FCP6 in the near future, but if I can edit the Firestorm files in FCP 5.0 I can edit this project right now.
**Edit** Just to be clear, I'm talking FCP 5.0, not 5.1.1
Last edited:
Shane Ross
Veteran
Should. It records DVCPRO HD and FCP 5 is compatible with that format.
P2 Card makes sense
P2 Card makes sense
The majority of my shooting has been underwater, so P2 card is my only option. I did borrow a Firestore-100 from a friend and it worked fine, but I didn't like the bulk it added to the camera. More gear is not exactly what I think of as an add-value when I'm carrying it around on river banks. For the cost of the Firestore you can get pretty close to a 16GB P2 card, which fits INSIDE the camera, no moving parts, small, and wha-la, you have more room.
Instead of installing a 3 foot diameter fan-boat propeller on the front of your car, why not just upgrade your performance chip?
My 2 cents. Cheers!
P2 Card makes sense
The majority of my shooting has been underwater, so P2 card is my only option. I did borrow a Firestore-100 from a friend and it worked fine, but I didn't like the bulk it added to the camera. More gear is not exactly what I think of as an add-value when I'm carrying it around on river banks. For the cost of the Firestore you can get pretty close to a 16GB P2 card, which fits INSIDE the camera, no moving parts, small, and wha-la, you have more room.
Instead of installing a 3 foot diameter fan-boat propeller on the front of your car, why not just upgrade your performance chip?
My 2 cents. Cheers!
randy09660
Member
Love Hate FireStore
Love Hate FireStore
I have a Love hate relationship with the FireStore. I love the fact you can shoot in Quicktime as a mater of fact I've never shot in P2 on it, only on P2 cards. I love being able to shoot for hours. I hate the firewire it's the weak link in the system. You never know if it's gone bad or the connection in the camera is bad. I don't like the extra weight for hand held shooting. I might have this fixed though by using this shoulder support http://www.dynamicmotionvideo.com/ I'm using the FS as a counter weight. But my biggest beef is that vibrations really bother it! I'd really like to see your housing for swapping hard drives. Is it anything like the one here http://hdrevolutionstore.com/ I like you can swap out SATA drives and hope to be able to swap out SSD SATA drives someday. But right now that package is to expensive for me and my FS is still under warranty. Plus the cost of the SSD and their size limits. But they keep getting cheaper and better so maybe some day soon! Again what your housing like? Randy
Love Hate FireStore
I have a Love hate relationship with the FireStore. I love the fact you can shoot in Quicktime as a mater of fact I've never shot in P2 on it, only on P2 cards. I love being able to shoot for hours. I hate the firewire it's the weak link in the system. You never know if it's gone bad or the connection in the camera is bad. I don't like the extra weight for hand held shooting. I might have this fixed though by using this shoulder support http://www.dynamicmotionvideo.com/ I'm using the FS as a counter weight. But my biggest beef is that vibrations really bother it! I'd really like to see your housing for swapping hard drives. Is it anything like the one here http://hdrevolutionstore.com/ I like you can swap out SATA drives and hope to be able to swap out SSD SATA drives someday. But right now that package is to expensive for me and my FS is still under warranty. Plus the cost of the SSD and their size limits. But they keep getting cheaper and better so maybe some day soon! Again what your housing like? Randy