P2 Future ?

Tom 4

Tom 4

Well-known member
Hi Guys
"My P2 observations"
P2 appears not be progressing as is the XDcam roll out, with pricing and integration with other equipment systems, my example,- our national broadcaster set up with P2 over 12 months ago, they are running extremely lean with cards because of the price point of the media.
Our other three major broadcasters have just invested in XDcam I'm told because of the price of the XDcam disc's, the intergration with FCP and the Macbook and it can be stored easlier and cheaply, un like P2.
Sony Camera gear is much more expensive than Panasonic cams, But, the Media is the huge difference, this "expensive difference" may lead to the possible demise of P2 achieving it's penetration across the board.
Maybe this is the point in time where Panasonic should re think it's future and adjust to it as the market decides what format is perceived to be the "better/best value for money".
Sorry if this is the incorrect forum to bring this up.
Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
sounds like you are applying theories based on your personal experience only. if i did the same based on my personal experience i would have the opposite opinion. so we are both right (or wrong) and it's pointless to argue. the proof is in the pudding and the more likely outcome is that sony and panasonic will continue to compete as they always have. neither company is going down or monopolizing the market. both formats will continue to exist until they are ready to switch it up and have us all buy new stuff (again).
 
Hi Cheezweezl,
Yes, your correct, this is from my observations in my part of the world, I'm very pleased with my P2 , but i'm just pointing out my observations now that the Two heavy weights have been pushing their respective media types over recent times.
Cheers
Tom K
 
Tom Id argue that Australia has and always will be a bit Sonycentric.

Still, here in Australia Panasonic had the gate open, when ABC switched, people noticed, but Pana have insisted on holding the prices (especially here in Aus).

Its a bummer really. At the current rate of progress here, the future seems to be shooting mostly on a Sony.

Be interested to here Rob Myer's opinion on all this.
 
Noel Evans said:
Tom Id argue that Australia has and always will be a bit Sonycentric.
Still, here in Australia Panasonic had the gate open, when ABC switched, people noticed, but Pana have insisted on holding the prices (especially here in Aus).
Its a bummer really. At the current rate of progress here, the future seems to be shooting mostly on a Sony.
Click to expand...
Hi Noel,
Yes , from my conversations with some network guys, Integration with FCP and lappies and the increasing use of FTP transfers have put the Sony in front, and the cost of a disc Versus the P2 card is a no brainer, you can chuck a $30 disc on the shelf and forget it, can't do that with a P2 card at this point in time.
Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
Tom for the record, I spend the majority of my time shooting to a firestore. Works like a charm.
 
Indeed. I like the physical look of Panasonic's camera as well as it's videos. However, transfering files every so often is becoming a drag for me. Can't just buy a bunch of cards and you can be on the road for days or weeks without having to bring along a a laptop, hard drive (large storage capacity), and other neccessary equipments just so you can re-use the P2 cards again. Sony does have the advantage here. I love the HPX500 but after a couple of trips to Thailand, I wish I had made the decision to go with Sony and the XDCam discs format.
 
I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion.

I LOVE the P2 work flow and format. The DVCPro HD codec rocks.

Have I needed to make new procedures for backing up and offloading? Sure.

If I were to do it again I'd buy the HPX-500 all over again.
 
If I were going on a long trip I'd rent (more p2 cards / firestore)
But even with a still camera I'd want to take a laptop with me so I can do a
bit of editing /backing up/previewing.

At the end of the day more cards are helpful.
 
Well I read some where that Panasonic bought the XDcam license from sony:huh:
kinda like what jvc is doing with the SxS. I guess that's a good thing. "One format under Sony for which we stand, indivisible.... It'd be great to have a 2/3 inch camera at the hpx's price point with Xdcam discs. But I think i might miss the dvc pro hd 100.
 
I'll preface this by saying that, after a year of almost daily use, I'm still not a huge P2 workflow fan. I've found that the extra hours in the hotel room at night offloading cards and backing up drives makes for some very long days... Sure, I could have an AC do it, but I feel I need to check my clips to be sure everything's there. And I have stacks of hard drives in my office now, and am somewhat overwhelmed by the bookkeeping.

That said, I have become a huge fan of DVCPRO HD, which I work with hassle-free in FCP... I'm surprised that so many people complain about issues with Final Cut, it works just fine.

Also I really like the robust build quality of the P2 cards, they feel very sturdy and so far I have not had a single problem with one (I own five 16g cards).

Media storage is all about archival security... It has been said often that hard drives may not be the best, but who knows the archival qualities of XDCAM disks? (those that I know who shoot XD also back up on drives)... When Blue Ray is more practical, the XD users will probably be backing up on those, so where's the advantage?

Tape has some advantages when it comes to ease of logging and storing camera original - But boy am I glad I don't have to spend the bucks (not to mention find the space) for the decks I'd need to work daily with DVCPRO HD.
 
solid state vs. a spinning disc? solid state wins hands down. give the sony a good shake and you may get an error. i've shaken internal wires loose on an hvx doing the shaky camera look but the p2 never skipped a beat.

compare jogging with an ipod shuffle to jogging with a cd player.
 
Expresscard is the future......Hard fact for some in this forum to accept but with JVC endorsing expresscard, the future is quite clear
 
hantanbl said:
Expresscard is the future......Hard fact for some in this forum to accept but with JVC endorsing expresscard, the future is quite clear
Click to expand...
Expresscard is the future of computer cards, yes. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the future of video though.

JVC's endorsement is irrelevant, as far as broadcast goes. Nobody in broadcast cares about JVC, they're the minorest of bit players. Fuji and Hitachi both endorsing P2 means a lot more to broadcast than JVC endorsing SxS! And the broadcast video market dwarfs all other markets, and SxS and P2 are both aimed at the broadcast market.

With that said, I think the ideal situation (and here I go harping on this again) is what I call "P3". That would be an expresscard-shaped inserted memory card that rides in a PCMCIA shell, like this:
http://www.duel-systemsadapters.com/?productid=DP-0002

To me, this is a no-brainer. You get complete backwards compatibility with all P2 hardware, plus forward compatibility with notebooks that use expresscard. Expresscard kind of sucks as far as its interface to the computer, that fiddly "push it in to eject it" is a stupid design, I much prefer the locking solidarity of the PCMCIA thing, so if they did a "P3" system I'd like to see a hard locking system on the cradle. But I just see this as win-win for everyone, plus it gives Panasonic the opportunity to make even smaller camcorders using the "P3" format.

Until then, people concerned about P2 longevity have to understand that markets don't get blown in the breeze of the latest fad. P2 owns about 80% of the tapeless market right now, and I'm sure Panasonic is in no rush to go rocking that boat.
 
hantanbl said:
Expresscard is the future......Hard fact for some in this forum to accept but with JVC endorsing expresscard, the future is quite clear
Click to expand...

While I personally am not a fan of P2/DVCProHD for cost reasons, the TV station I work at is all P2. And not just our station, but company wide (17 stations total, most in major markets). That is millions of $$$ tied up in the P2 workflow. And that is normal for other comanies as well. I have never heard of a JVC being used for broadcast. Expresscard/SxS is a lot more cost effective and yields more bang for the buck IMHO than P2 for a lot of situations... but broadcast news/sports type work isn't one of them. Barry is right... Fuji and Hitachi endorsing P2 has a lot more sway than JVC endorsing SxS. JVC endorsing SxS is irrelevent to my bosses, because they don't make a camera my bosses would ever want to use. And Sony doesn't even make a broadcast SxS camera. Trust me, you're not going to see a ton of stations suddenly trade in their $25k shoulder mount 2/3 chip cameras for EX1/EX3's. Just not going to happen.

For better or worse, P2 is here to stay... for a loooooong time.
 
Well, let's be precise -- it's not SxS which costs less than P2 -- it's that the formats which the SxS cameras use are lower bitrate so they take up less space and you can record more on a card. But that's a serious trade-off, too.
 
David Jimerson said:
Well, let's be precise -- it's not SxS which costs less than P2 -- it's that the formats which the SxS cameras use are lower bitrate so they take up less space and you can record more on a card. But that's a serious trade-off, too.
Click to expand...

Point taken... but as to whether it's that serious a trade off, it kind of depends on the work you do. For the stuff I do on the side, it really wouldn't be a big trade off. For someone else though, that could be huge.
 
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