Jonny Bravo
Carbonite Member
Ok guys I give up. No more P2 bashing. thx for your replies. I shall chime whenever in doubt.
P2 Future ?
- Thread starter Tom 4
- Start date
Bassman2003
Veteran
You preaching to a varied choir here...
If I were in your situation, (and I am) I would consider the Flash XDR unit for longer form recording.
With the rebate, the HPX-500 was literally half the cost of the PDW-330 body.
The difference between the two would cover the cost of the Flash XDR and plenty of CF cards.
The 330 does not do 720p60, which for we is a deal breaker as I think this is a great event framerate.
Or you could get an Nnovia or Firestore for longer record times as well.
I don't like the P2 record time/price ratio either, but this is a Panasonic based forum, so your not going to overthrow the system with your efforts if you get what I mean.
You might want to try a Sony forum to get people to agree how the Panasonic hardware does fit your needs.
If I were in your situation, (and I am) I would consider the Flash XDR unit for longer form recording.
With the rebate, the HPX-500 was literally half the cost of the PDW-330 body.
The difference between the two would cover the cost of the Flash XDR and plenty of CF cards.
The 330 does not do 720p60, which for we is a deal breaker as I think this is a great event framerate.
Or you could get an Nnovia or Firestore for longer record times as well.
I don't like the P2 record time/price ratio either, but this is a Panasonic based forum, so your not going to overthrow the system with your efforts if you get what I mean.
You might want to try a Sony forum to get people to agree how the Panasonic hardware does fit your needs.
Spartacus
Veteran
YOU ARE SO RIGHT! YOU OPENED MY EYES TO THE TRUTH! I THANK YOU SO MUCH!
EVERYBODY SHOULD THANK YOU FOR FINALLY SPEAKING OUT WHAT NO ONE DID BEFORE!
I guess that´s what you wanted to hear all along...:huh:
There is one more calculation you haven't made.
By the 500 and the FlashXDR. Use the Compact flash cards and it will be alot cheaper than even your calculation of the XDCAM.
Add to this the fact that guys that are using the 335 have admitted to me that the 500 gives a better picture and you have the better camera for less bucks.
Not sure how it is in the states but here in Oz a 502 is about $13000 and the 335 is about $19500. This means that a 502 and a XDR are still well under the price of a 335.
Not including lense cost is fudging the numbers a bit as well. You can use the lenses you have now on the 500s and hire other lenses as you need them. You can't do that with the 335.
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it's not about cost...
it's not about cost...
I used the sony 330 for two years and now own the HPX500.
First off the 500 is ***NOT*** 900x600.....
It's a 2/3 CCD 1920x1080 native at all times, then whatever codec you're shooting to (DV,DVCPRO50, 720p,1080p/i) it uses a 14 bit D/A and a 18bit DSP to convert it to that format on the card.
Both cameras (Sony and Panasonic) codecs are 8bit codecs on final record. The panasonics processors that convert the 14bit video to 8bit are better.
4.4.4 - 4.2.2. 10bit and 12bit codec cams are in another price range all together.
The Sony is only 1/2 CCD 1440x1080 native. Lame! Especially when there are 1/2 1920x1080 handycam's on the market for less.
Yes the P2 is expensive at first over time after buying $30 dollar discs and storing them it is not.
Why I switched:
Sony is expensive for what it is.
FCP and Avid eat the panasonic codec like a snack. I can edit full res HD on my laptop and keep my business portable. (using two external estata drives). My laptop hated the xdcam codec. XDCAM is a very heavy number crunching codec for FCP to handle. For any computer for that matter. Slows the system down and you have to edit in lower resolutions.
2/3's will out class 1/2 ccd's any day of the week. The 500's latitude kicks the 330 -355's butt. The color saturation far exceeds Sony's.
500's low light and gain are much cleaner and clearer.
Plus DVCPRO50 and HD is standard with the majoity of TV stations and production houses. (Olympic coverage, Discovery, SciFi Channel,) Most older networks are still using DVCPRO tape or DVCPROHD tape format.
With Hard drive prices dropping there's no excuse for not archiving digitally.
Finally the 500 will not fail mechanically. There are no moving parts. It can handle one hell of a beating. Shake the crap out if it. freeze it, heat it, it shoots through it all.
I do bring my laptop with me to off load the one 32 gig card I have while on a shoot.
But I shoot so much in SD DVCPRO50 that I never fill up the card. In HD I'll off load once, maybe twice. With more cards I'll never off load until I'm back at the office.
Panasonic also has a 5 year year warranty (free) with cam purchase. Sony doesn't!
In fact Sony's known to stop repairing out of production products such as it's beta line.
The only con with the HPX500 over the 355: lack of in cam picture tuning. (KNEE< GAMMA and junk) I don't consider this a flaw because I record everything with the most Color and gamma I can get then tweek in post. I never create my look on set, you'll screw yourself in post later if you do, (like recording high contrast cinelooks in camera), do that and you lost all control in post.
Almost forgot, you can attach a $30,000 2/3 cine lens straight to the 500 with no adapter. You can even use a SD 2/3 lens on the 500 with hardly any issues. The weird ass 1/2 lens mount on the xdcam is very limited. Limited type of lenses. Poor selection.
If you didn't take advantage of the B&H sale last month too bad. I got the HPX for $8000. If your lucky they might have the sale again. Now it's $11500 with two free 16gig cards.
If you're a die hard Sony fan, look at the Sony EX 3 with detachable lens. The EX codec is similar to the DVCPRO and FCP can handle it with ease. It's still 1/2 inch though and $8500 smacks.
Happy buying
it's not about cost...
I used the sony 330 for two years and now own the HPX500.
First off the 500 is ***NOT*** 900x600.....
It's a 2/3 CCD 1920x1080 native at all times, then whatever codec you're shooting to (DV,DVCPRO50, 720p,1080p/i) it uses a 14 bit D/A and a 18bit DSP to convert it to that format on the card.
Both cameras (Sony and Panasonic) codecs are 8bit codecs on final record. The panasonics processors that convert the 14bit video to 8bit are better.
4.4.4 - 4.2.2. 10bit and 12bit codec cams are in another price range all together.
The Sony is only 1/2 CCD 1440x1080 native. Lame! Especially when there are 1/2 1920x1080 handycam's on the market for less.
Yes the P2 is expensive at first over time after buying $30 dollar discs and storing them it is not.
Why I switched:
Sony is expensive for what it is.
FCP and Avid eat the panasonic codec like a snack. I can edit full res HD on my laptop and keep my business portable. (using two external estata drives). My laptop hated the xdcam codec. XDCAM is a very heavy number crunching codec for FCP to handle. For any computer for that matter. Slows the system down and you have to edit in lower resolutions.
2/3's will out class 1/2 ccd's any day of the week. The 500's latitude kicks the 330 -355's butt. The color saturation far exceeds Sony's.
500's low light and gain are much cleaner and clearer.
Plus DVCPRO50 and HD is standard with the majoity of TV stations and production houses. (Olympic coverage, Discovery, SciFi Channel,) Most older networks are still using DVCPRO tape or DVCPROHD tape format.
With Hard drive prices dropping there's no excuse for not archiving digitally.
Finally the 500 will not fail mechanically. There are no moving parts. It can handle one hell of a beating. Shake the crap out if it. freeze it, heat it, it shoots through it all.
I do bring my laptop with me to off load the one 32 gig card I have while on a shoot.
But I shoot so much in SD DVCPRO50 that I never fill up the card. In HD I'll off load once, maybe twice. With more cards I'll never off load until I'm back at the office.
Panasonic also has a 5 year year warranty (free) with cam purchase. Sony doesn't!
In fact Sony's known to stop repairing out of production products such as it's beta line.
The only con with the HPX500 over the 355: lack of in cam picture tuning. (KNEE< GAMMA and junk) I don't consider this a flaw because I record everything with the most Color and gamma I can get then tweek in post. I never create my look on set, you'll screw yourself in post later if you do, (like recording high contrast cinelooks in camera), do that and you lost all control in post.
Almost forgot, you can attach a $30,000 2/3 cine lens straight to the 500 with no adapter. You can even use a SD 2/3 lens on the 500 with hardly any issues. The weird ass 1/2 lens mount on the xdcam is very limited. Limited type of lenses. Poor selection.
If you didn't take advantage of the B&H sale last month too bad. I got the HPX for $8000. If your lucky they might have the sale again. Now it's $11500 with two free 16gig cards.
If you're a die hard Sony fan, look at the Sony EX 3 with detachable lens. The EX codec is similar to the DVCPRO and FCP can handle it with ease. It's still 1/2 inch though and $8500 smacks.
Happy buying
walnutcrunch
Well-known member
Why did you switch names? I assume you are Johnny Bravo due to the "be cox".
The thing you really have to decide is if it fits your workflow. Different tools for different uses. Just because it is a different tool doesn't mean it is inherently better or worse than another. We bought 4 P2 cards and forgot about them. We don't even think of needing more.
Some people would need more. Some people are not ready to commit to the workflow. You have to get in a different state of mind from the tape-like work flow. It's like Final Cut Server integration. You have to commit. Once you do life gets better.
The only thing that chuffs me about Panasonic is the price for the freaking p2 card reader. Yes it is cheaper than a deck, but there really is nothing to it that convinces me there is any justification to the price other than Panny knows people will pay that.
At the time I bought my 502 a friend of mine bought the 335. Straight out of the box he admitted that the pics from the 502 were alot better. He tweaked his camera to about the same as the 502 then after joining this site I tweaked the settings on the 502 and it has blown him away so much he is deciding between a 502 and a 700. He has had his 335 for about 12 months and is looking at replacing it. Enough said in my books.
I just want to reclarify in my posts that I AM NOT against p2 one iota.
And Rob thanks for your last response, this is the kind of thing I like to hear about. Are these things public somewhere? Can I register to news updates etc?
And, whats the p2 road show involve?
No argument from me.