Luis Caffesse
Admin
Just curious, why didn't you make the film you wanted to make and just submit it for exhibition?
Out of Curiosity - FILM TIME LIMITS - Vote in the poll
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Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
And why not make it 15 minutes and make it that much better? Or 20 minutes and it might be twice as good...:evil: I think what's being said is that there is no correct arbitrary length, only that that is right for the story, but then who makes that judgement? At some point decisions must be made. That's why there is an exhibition category. Jack's film was arguably the best of the fest. It just couldn't make it in under the requirements set for the fest. Still, he wanted to exhibit something, so he did.
No one saying it is the only factor, it would be nice to have a few more minutes for breathing room. I know of 3 DVXuser members who stated one of the factors for not making a film this go around was the 5 minute limit. 2 of them that have had multiple entries.
I don't think people purposely set out to make an exhibition film. It seems to be that they are a victim of circumstance.
I don't think people purposely set out to make an exhibition film. It seems to be that they are a victim of circumstance.
I didn't turn it in for exhibition because I figured I'd wait until we have our wrap party so everyone that worked on it could be the first to see the finished film. We were supposed to have that wrap party today, but we've postponed it until next week. After the wrap party it will be posted on my website.
Why do you think my film wasn't 15 or 20 minutes long? That's not a good argument and sounds more like a foolish statement. The film wasn't 15 mins or 20 mins because it's 10 mins and 46 secs long. It is what it is. 15 mins or 20 mins wasn't necessary to tell that story.
Jack's film being the best of the fest fully supports the argument for longer films. It just shows that even when you set out to make a 5 min short, that it could end up longer and if you cut it down it won't be as good. I'm guessing if Jack were to cut his film down to 5 mins it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now.
Why do you think my film wasn't 15 or 20 minutes long? That's not a good argument and sounds more like a foolish statement. The film wasn't 15 mins or 20 mins because it's 10 mins and 46 secs long. It is what it is. 15 mins or 20 mins wasn't necessary to tell that story.
Jack's film being the best of the fest fully supports the argument for longer films. It just shows that even when you set out to make a 5 min short, that it could end up longer and if you cut it down it won't be as good. I'm guessing if Jack were to cut his film down to 5 mins it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Not really. Jack's films are always among the very best of the fest, regardless of the time limit. He's one of the few here who has done very well with the concept of the five minute story.
I admit that I don't understand folk's desire to raise the limit.
Will someone answer the question: Why can't this fest be about telling a story in five minutes?
Is it that people think it's impossible? Or do they think it's too difficult? We know it's not impossible. There have been plenty of quality five minute entries. Difficult? Or course. Why can't this fest be allowed to be challenging? And Blaine's point is a good one - if 10, why not 15, or 20? Five minutes forces you to take a really hard look at what is essential in "story."
Jack's name keeps getting brought up - Anyone looking for a perfect example of how to tell a compelling story in five minutes need only go watch all of his previous entries.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Sure. At least two were five minutes and a few came in under six. All of them placed very high among the winners. The point is that Jack can tell a story regardless of the restrictions.
For the sake of argument let's consider Jack's entries as consistently being the very best of the fests. If that's so, very few of the rest of the entrants have even come close to his mastery of story. Are the other entries going to suddenly improve with more time? If he can do it, why can't the rest work harder to get there?
The five minute story is an awesome training ground for the budding filmmakers around these parts. I'd like to see many, many more entries near Jack's quality level before we all have to sit through 50 ten minute films of so-so calibre - and even then maybe not.
Five minute framework is a perfectly legitimate filmmaking exercise and can be mastered. But very few participants have yet, which is why Jack's stuff sticks out!
For the sake of argument let's consider Jack's entries as consistently being the very best of the fests. If that's so, very few of the rest of the entrants have even come close to his mastery of story. Are the other entries going to suddenly improve with more time? If he can do it, why can't the rest work harder to get there?
The five minute story is an awesome training ground for the budding filmmakers around these parts. I'd like to see many, many more entries near Jack's quality level before we all have to sit through 50 ten minute films of so-so calibre - and even then maybe not.
Five minute framework is a perfectly legitimate filmmaking exercise and can be mastered. But very few participants have yet, which is why Jack's stuff sticks out!
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
5 min.
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
I won't push this into the personal realm by saying you put forth a foolish arguement. What I will say is that I pursosely put the smiley in there to keep things light. I just chose to take your own arguement to the next level. If you think it's a foolish arguement perhaps you need to look inward.
boy if jack is the standard for why we do things, we all are in trouble. I do think the quality was higher at the 6 minute mark from what I have seen. I am not sure what the sweet spot is as I have said before.
I don't understand the religion behind this time limit debate, but it seems my argument for a few extra minutes offends the sensibility of some. That the people who are making what others deem as crap will continue to make what others feel is crap. I feel choices help the process and 5 minutes is an arbitrary as any other number. That given more time, many of the films would improve. A time limit is a commercial choice, not an artistic one.
With that I am becoming redundant so I am out of this.
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
You are right that crap is crap. The problem is: where do you draw the line. Whiie it is a legitimate problem for some, the time limit is a crutch for others. I'm not saying that someone would not make a better movie if it was longer. But longer is by no means a guarantee of quality. Personally, I find the 5 minute short very tough to write for and I'd love to see more time to do the story. But I still see that no matter what the time limit, it will always be perceived as too short by some.
I mainly said that it was foolish statement because it sounded like what he said was directed at my and my latest film. I wanted to be clear that I didn't make a 10 min film because it was twice as long as a 5 min film. It was the length that it was because that's how much time it took to tell the story the way I wanted to.
I think 20 mins would be too long for these fests. However, I think 10 mins would be better than 5, and 40% of other users that have voted in the poll think so. Perhaps those other 60% would just stick to their 5 min length even if the 10 min limit was there.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
I brought up Jack because several people arguing for a longer time limit have pointed to his 8 minute exhibition film as evidence that longer = better. I think that's illogical, given that he's consistently placed regardless of the time limit.
Your dig at Jack aside - you can't argue that no one here comes close to his track record. If there's another dvxfest participant with the same consistent ability to tell a story, regardless of the framework, I'm unaware of him.
No religion. Just a discussion.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Or, better yet, just make whatever the heck time limit you want! Don't let these fests limit what you do! If you can find the means, and production crew to do a fest entry, then you can do a longer short if you want to! And don't just make it for the fests... make it for yourself.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
And I'd argue his 8 min. exhibition film isn't as strong as his others (in storytelling)
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
And I'd argue that you're wrong and it is the most fully realize story he's had to date...:beer:
Whatever it was I said, it was not a dig at Jack, actually it was a compliment.:cheesy:
I thought many of the shorts this fest needed more time, some don't agree. Just trying to make the process better and with that ... now I am out of here.
Matt Harris
Veteran
5 is the magic number
5 is the magic number
Five minute framework is a perfectly legitimate filmmaking exercise and can be mastered. But very few participants have yet, which is why Jack's stuff sticks out![/
agreed. master 5 minutes first, then move on. however i fully understand flmmkrs POV.
my 2 hack-fests (cabin and glassjaw) ended up being 10 minutes which lost a lot of plot and character once they were chopped to 5 minutes. but thats my bad, and it makes me determined to write and direct a successful 5 minuter for the next fest.
5 is the magic number
Five minute framework is a perfectly legitimate filmmaking exercise and can be mastered. But very few participants have yet, which is why Jack's stuff sticks out![/
agreed. master 5 minutes first, then move on. however i fully understand flmmkrs POV.
my 2 hack-fests (cabin and glassjaw) ended up being 10 minutes which lost a lot of plot and character once they were chopped to 5 minutes. but thats my bad, and it makes me determined to write and direct a successful 5 minuter for the next fest.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Whoops, must have misinterpreted it. Sorry!
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