or Sony RX10: What we've been looking for from Panasonic?

Michael Schrengohst said:
Yes, we don't see much ice in Dallas, but when we do it is very harsh.
Kids are still off school tomorrow.
The main roads are OK but everything else is still an ice skating rink.
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I'm in Denton and it's been a crazy weekend. Even more crazy is I've got my RX10 still sitting here in its box. It arrived last week while I was out of town. If I don't have to go into work I am definitely busting out this bad boy.
 
Can anyone comment how a RX10 might match up color-wise with a EX1R? Thinking about second/third cameras for events and shows. I'm sure some CC would be necessary, but are the Reds/Blues/Purples even close to the same hue?
 
I've been playing with the RX10, setting it up for a couple of hours.
Am I crazy or does Focus Assist not work in Movie mode...like wise AF other than continuous?

I'm perplexed by this seeming limitation. Right now I only get manual focus - no assist or continuous - no push button AF at all.
In manual mode all seems normal, if so why would you record in Movie mode other than of course that there's no audio other than Movie apparently.

Perhaps I'm missing something from that extensive, detailed manual <g>.
 
^ I may be confused by your question, but I think continuous AF is pretty normal for cameras recording video. Still mode is a totally different environment. You are correct though about focus assist, in the sense or an enlarged area, not being available in video mode. However you can use other focus aids such as peaking.

I'm also confused by your reference to 'no audio other than Movie'. The camera should be recording audio when shooting video in other modes too. I shoot video quite a bit in Program mode and there's no issue with audio.
 
jimagine said:
I've been playing with the RX10, setting it up for a couple of hours.
Am I crazy or does Focus Assist not work in Movie mode...like wise AF other than continuous?

I'm perplexed by this seeming limitation. Right now I only get manual focus - no assist or continuous - no push button AF at all.
In manual mode all seems normal, if so why would you record in Movie mode other than of course that there's no audio other than Movie apparently.

Perhaps I'm missing something from that extensive, detailed manual <g>.
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You're still sane jimagine, video mode focus options are AF-C, Manual, and Lock-on AF. In practice though, it might not be a large issue.

After using the GH cameras for years, I too thought it was a limitation, however, after a time didn't miss having all the still focus options in video. After setting Right and Down custom buttons to Manual Focus & Lock-on AF things began looking better. Most of all, AF on this camera is excellent, and peaking is something we didn't have with the GH cameras.

As you found, PASM modes provide other familiar focus modes, but there is a catch. If you focus in still mode, then press the video button, focus reverts to AF-C and, if set, AEL will cancel too. If you focus in still mode, then press Manual Focus custom button, focus is locked. Unfortunately, AEL for video, only works in Video Mode.

With practice, I found what I thought to be limitations, only differences.

Looking forward to hearing how your further adventures go...
 
Ken7 said:
^ I may be confused by your question, but I think continuous AF is pretty normal for cameras recording video. Still mode is a totally different environment. You are correct though about focus assist, in the sense or an enlarged area, not being available in video mode. However you can use other focus aids such as peaking.

I'm also confused by your reference to 'no audio other than Movie'. The camera should be recording audio when shooting video in other modes too. I shoot video quite a bit in Program mode and there's no issue with audio.
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To the first point, like on the C100 and 5D that a lot of us have been using in production, the one touch auto focus for a quick starting point was so attractive that a lot of C300 users have requested the option.
And regarding AF in video cameras, yeah but no pros I've ever known/hired ever used it. I'm not saying that new implementations like Canon's offering for the C100 can't work - but that wasn't my point.
I just couldn't/can't get why they eliminated the one touch AF that is useful to lot's of DPs from the video mode...few/none would use the continuous mode...but I don't want to criticize anyone who might here.

Regarding audio - I only had a couple of hours with it last night, but it seemed that audio meters were only available in Video...glad if I'm wrong.

One last thing regarding pulling manual focus with or without peaking (which works great) - there is in fact a way to have focus assist/enlargement while shooting video.
Just assign Enlargement to a custom button (I set up the center button) and it will enlarge the image for as long as you like while you pull your focus manually.
But again, it just makes sense that the one touch AF feature be in video as it's so useable on other film making cameras.
For instance, hitting the "enlarge" button and then half pressing the shutter would immediately show if you grabbed focus or enable you to grab the focus ring and tweak it instantly.
That would be the best implementation and it's all there but the button push.
 
jimagine said:
One last thing regarding pulling manual focus with or without peaking (which works great) - there is in fact a way to have focus assist/enlargement while shooting video.
Just assign Enlargement to a custom button (I set up the center button) and it will enlarge the image for as long as you like while you pull your focus manually.
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Great tip! Who needs a manual? We'll figure it out.
 
jimagine said:
One last thing regarding pulling manual focus with or without peaking (which works great) - there is in fact a way to have focus assist/enlargement while shooting video.
Just assign Enlargement to a custom button (I set up the center button) and it will enlarge the image for as long as you like while you pull your focus manually.
But again, it just makes sense that the one touch AF feature be in video as it's so useable on other film making cameras.
For instance, hitting the "enlarge" button and then half pressing the shutter would immediately show if you grabbed focus or enable you to grab the focus ring and tweak it instantly.
That would be the best implementation and it's all there but the button push.
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That is what I did. I have a shoot tomorrow and will give the RX10 a test run. This is my main client and he endures all my testing with a smile.
Hopefully Sony can take this input and come up with some firmware updates. Who knows - maybe the RX10 will get a hack as well?
 
If moire, aliasing & mud are to be issues, the Grand Canyon will provide the cause. The Sony RX10 found none.

This location is often where my cameras become keepers or failures. The RX10 was a big success and is a keeper. This camera offers better than the best of camcorders and DSLRs I've owned, and then some.

Zoom speed has been considered an issue, but was a joy to use with the zoom lever and focus ring. I'd be even happier with a slower zoom.

ISO3200 Low-light shots, IMO, were as useable as those from my GH3 despite the AVCHD codec.

Clear Image Zoom allowed getting California Conor shots I'd have missed badly with my usual Lumix lenses. And at no apparent loss of quality.

At -6 degrees my favorite lightweight Benro S2 fluid-like head became a brick, but the camera was unfazed. The Manfrotto 560B monopod fluid coupling works at any temp.

RX10 buttons are easier to operate with gloves than GH3. Some GH3 buttons are difficult gloveless.


Winter 2013 at Grand Canyon South Rim. View from the rim, landmark architecture, and route to Plateau Point via Bright Angel Trail. Also had a close visit with a California Condor at Plateau Point.

Sony DSC-RX10
1080/60p
Exterior settings: Vivid, +2 Sharpening, -0.3/0.7 Exposure, Auto WB
Interior settings: Standard, +2 Sharpening, 0.0 Exposure, Auto WB
Manfrotto 560B Fluid Monopod
Gitzo GT0531 Tripod
Benro S2 Fluid-like Head
Polarizer
 
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Just doing some initial testing with some well lit subjects.
First thins I can say is this lens just rocs. Seriously, If one of my Canon L lenses could do this, what might that glass cost.
And on the lens, I shot it beside several of my favorite primes, including my favorite on the BMC - the Oly 45mm.
The RX10 absolutely equals it for resolution. Now on MFT the 45mm has a look and bokeh equal to the Canon 85mm prime with perfect circular specular highlights.
The RX10 at the same relative 135mm, while the bokeh isn't quite as soft, the highlights are nearly perfectly circular and other than some real "onion skinning" actually looks great beside the Oly on the BMC.

So far Standard, -3 -2 -3 is delivering and almost unbelievably smooth and detailed image at 200 and 400 ISO.
I did a tests comparison of the RX at 400 ISO and the BMPCC at it's native 800 ASA and the RX10 is right there.

A lot more testing today for a series of spots next week that I really want to try this on.
I'll be honest, I got this for run and gun but in controlled lighting, sets, this camera is kind of shocking me.

I'm shooting skin tones and actors today, and I'm really looking forward to the results.
 
jimagine said:
Just doing some initial testing with some well lit subjects.
First thins I can say is this lens just rocs. Seriously, If one of my Canon L lenses could do this, what might that glass cost.
And on the lens, I shot it beside several of my favorite primes, including my favorite on the BMC - the Oly 45mm.
The RX10 absolutely equals it for resolution. Now on MFT the 45mm has a look and bokeh equal to the Canon 85mm prime with perfect circular specular highlights.
The RX10 at the same relative 135mm, while the bokeh isn't quite as soft, the highlights are nearly perfectly circular and other than some real "onion skinning" actually looks great beside the Oly on the BMC.

So far Standard, -3 -2 -3 is delivering and almost unbelievably smooth and detailed image at 200 and 400 ISO.
I did a tests comparison of the RX at 400 ISO and the BMPCC at it's native 800 ASA and the RX10 is right there.

A lot more testing today for a series of spots next week that I really want to try this on.
I'll be honest, I got this for run and gun but in controlled lighting, sets, this camera is kind of shocking me.

I'm shooting skin tones and actors today, and I'm really looking forward to the results.
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Awesome! Looking forward to seeing some of your fine footage. What I have discovered when using this camera is to stop comparing it to my other cameras and just let the performance speak for itself taking in mind what the camera is and is not.
 
jimagine said:
Just doing some initial testing with some well lit subjects.
First thins I can say is this lens just rocs. Seriously, If one of my Canon L lenses could do this, what might that glass cost.
And on the lens, I shot it beside several of my favorite primes, including my favorite on the BMC - the Oly 45mm.
The RX10 absolutely equals it for resolution. Now on MFT the 45mm has a look and bokeh equal to the Canon 85mm prime with perfect circular specular highlights.
The RX10 at the same relative 135mm, while the bokeh isn't quite as soft, the highlights are nearly perfectly circular and other than some real "onion skinning" actually looks great beside the Oly on the BMC.

So far Standard, -3 -2 -3 is delivering and almost unbelievably smooth and detailed image at 200 and 400 ISO.
I did a tests comparison of the RX at 400 ISO and the BMPCC at it's native 800 ASA and the RX10 is right there.

A lot more testing today for a series of spots next week that I really want to try this on.
I'll be honest, I got this for run and gun but in controlled lighting, sets, this camera is kind of shocking me.

I'm shooting skin tones and actors today, and I'm really looking forward to the results.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the RX10 is growing on you. Many thanks for the update.
 
Hi Dan,
Love your videos so far on the RX10.

Agree with you comment on the GH3 buttons, on mine the display button is quite recessed and i often need to use my finger nail to depress it. I'm seriously considering the RX10 for vacation video instead of my GH3 (deciding between it and the GX7). I love the fact that i don't need to change lenses and is overall a slightly smaller package. The other nice features on the RX10 is the built-in ND, have you used it in any of your videos so far. Is the 3-stop ND useful to keep 180degree shutter speed in broad daylight? I'm currently using a genustech Eclipse ND fader on my GH3 which gives about 2 - 8 stops ND.

Thanks!
 
eddmy1 said:
Hi Dan,
Love your videos so far on the RX10.

Agree with you comment on the GH3 buttons, on mine the display button is quite recessed and i often need to use my finger nail to depress it. I'm seriously considering the RX10 for vacation video instead of my GH3 (deciding between it and the GX7). I love the fact that i don't need to change lenses and is overall a slightly smaller package. The other nice features on the RX10 is the built-in ND, have you used it in any of your videos so far. Is the 3-stop ND useful to keep 180degree shutter speed in broad daylight? I'm currently using a genustech Eclipse ND fader on my GH3 which gives about 2 - 8 stops ND.

Thanks!
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Thanks for the positive comments. I've used the RX10 ND for several clips in each video. The Mather Point time-lapse near the end of Grand Canyon Winter was shot at 24p with ND. By adding ND to the RX10 "Fn" menu, it is a snap to turn ND on/off.

Best of luck with your new camera decision.
 
eddmy1 said:
Hi Dan,
Love your videos so far on the RX10.

Agree with you comment on the GH3 buttons, on mine the display button is quite recessed and i often need to use my finger nail to depress it. I'm seriously considering the RX10 for vacation video instead of my GH3 (deciding between it and the GX7). I love the fact that i don't need to change lenses and is overall a slightly smaller package. The other nice features on the RX10 is the built-in ND, have you used it in any of your videos so far. Is the 3-stop ND useful to keep 180degree shutter speed in broad daylight? I'm currently using a genustech Eclipse ND fader on my GH3 which gives about 2 - 8 stops ND.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The ND is included becuase the lens has diffraction problems at smaller f stops. It works for that, but really is not powerful enough to always maintain a 180 degree shutter.
 
dan.carter said:
Thanks for the positive comments. I've used the RX10 ND for several clips in each video. The Mather Point time-lapse near the end of Grand Canyon Winter was shot at 24p with ND. By adding ND to the RX10 "Fn" menu, it is a snap to turn ND on/off.

Best of luck with your new camera decision.
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I assigned ND to the down button on the control wheel.
ANd Philip, add a 2 or 3 stop ND to the lens and you can easily shoot 2.8 at 1/50th along with the built in ND. Come on, what camera this size has a built in ND?
 
dustylense said:
I assigned ND to the down button on the control wheel.
ANd Philip, add a 2 or 3 stop ND to the lens and you can easily shoot 2.8 at 1/50th along with the built in ND. Come on, what camera this size has a built in ND?
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average sunlight is f16 1/100 at ISO 100, and snow is one to two stops smaller. So, with the ND engaged it is f8 at 1/50 ISO 100, and f11-16 on the beach or snow or at altitude. Not F2.8. At 60p, the 180 degree shutter setting gvies one stop larger f stop. The camera has limitations when shoting at 24p, which is all I do, at 1/50.

I am glad you love the camera but tHere are limitations in any $1300 camera and it is wise to acknowledge them. The lens starts to have diffraction problems at f8, so work around that. and that is why there has to be ND filter. It needed a stronger setting.
 
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best quick settings you'll ever make to the buttons: set the top C button to ND, and the main big control dial iso, and the AEL/magnify button to focus assist zoom
 
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