1DC: Okay here is what I really want in an EOS camera...

Samir Patel

Samir Patel

Active member
Ok so now that we have the news regarding the C300 mark II, I am thinking about what I really could use in a camera. I love what I am reading about the mark II but the price doesn't work for me. Sure it would work if I used the camera daily for business but I am kind of between a few different businesses so let me explain.

I grew up in a video/advertising background but currently am in the real estate industry. I find myself carrying a DSLR more than I would carry a video camera mainly because to me stills are more important in my business. I can use them on my business website, listings, blog etc. I own a 5D3 and the video was great the day I bought it but lets face it its fuzzy and ML RAW is just a pain in my ass (I had it working for a while but recently when I updated to the latest build it started crashing on me so I just removed it from my camera) not considering it is only 1080p. If I am shooting video today I want to be able to archive real estate video for the future and eventually re-encode for 4K when it is more adopted by viewers.

So I bought a GH4. I've been playing around with it but there is something about the colors which I'm still trying to work though, I love the canon colors. The other problem is that I don't want to carry two cameras at all times - the 5D for stills for full frame and GH4 for video.

So I keep thinking about the 1DC. Maybe that would settle everything. But then I keep remembering that I am still stuck with using the Zacuto loop on that camera when I am shooting video not to mention the camera is old in the tooth.

WHAT I REALLY WANT:
Give me a 1DC Mark II at an affordable price with an Electronic viewfinder. I think that would work. I hear a lot of people complaining that the C300v2 is not ergonomically correct. I tend to find that I am most comfortable when I can hold a camera up to my eye. I probably would love the C300v2 but I need to shoot stills more than video.

Do you think we will ever get a Full Frame camera which shoots large stills with an electronic view finder which will also shoot 4K video internally?

Any suggestions?
 
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If you're not doing print or heavy editing (which you may be, I'm not sure) why not consider just grabbing frames from 4K footage?
 
I tend to shoot all stills in RAW just so I can get back to edit. That's why I've been hoping to find a body to shoot RAW on a FF sensor maybe in the 14-16mm range but also that doubles as a 4K cam. I think I may just go with a 1DC mark I on the used market for now and deal with the zacuto loop. I do like that the 1DC shoots 12fps in Stills (I guess I could always use it to shoot sports or runway)

I guess I am looking to do too many things with one body.
 
I'm guessing the weight and battery are why you aren't considering the RED you have listed in your sig?

I don't know how much shooting you are doing at a time but if it's just popping off shots I could see a couple of REDVOLTS in the side handle, 5.0 up top, and just going for it. 5k stills (with the larger sensor area) and 4k for motion if you want. All raw.
 
Hi William, I love the Scarlet I have but it's not practical for this particular use.

Basically if I had time to script and plan shots it would be the camera I would use but what I'm looking for is an all in one cam which is quiet and DSLR form factor which still shoots 4K but great stills in full frame which is the camera I would be carrying with me while I am actually showing properties (so in essence kind of stealing shots while I am visiting the properties for use in the future when I have time to incorporate into actual edited pieces). Basically DSLR form is perfect for this because it is stealthy. RED is not.

I guess I will try using the GH4 this week and see if the stills will work. I have been using the Tokina 11-16 on a speed booster which seems fine for video but in stills I would loose the autofocus.
 
Samir Patel said:
Hi William, I love the Scarlet I have but it's not practical for this particular use.

Basically if I had time to script and plan shots it would be the camera I would use but what I'm looking for is an all in one cam which is quiet and DSLR form factor which still shoots 4K but great stills in full frame which is the camera I would be carrying with me while I am actually showing properties (so in essence kind of stealing shots while I am visiting the properties for use in the future when I have time to incorporate into actual edited pieces). Basically DSLR form is perfect for this because it is stealthy. RED is not.

I guess I will try using the GH4 this week and see if the stills will work. I have been using the Tokina 11-16 on a speed booster which seems fine for video but in stills I would loose the autofocus.
Click to expand...

Word.
 
Samir Patel said:
... Do you think we will ever get a Full Frame camera which shoots large stills with an electronic view finder which will also shoot 4K video internally?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Yes. 5D MK IV (or whatever it is called when it comes out ... which should be some time in the fall).

An updated 1D X and/or 1D C should also appear some time in 2016.

PS. The above is not directly from the Canon execs lips but off the various bits on the web and my take on the natural product replacement cycle.
 
I would not mind an extra EVF to plug-on the hot shoe, but I sure want the optical view finder.

No matter how expensive the sony ones you can buy now, none of the EVF is as good or responsive as the OVF at the moment.
 
Matt Turner said:
I wouldn't say a 4K 5D MK IV is a done deal yet:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/04/back-and-forth-no-4k-for-eos-5d-mark-iv/
But Canon have admitted they are behind the ball with 4K, so if they don't produce a 4K 5D MK IV it would be very surprising.
Click to expand...
It's not that they're dropping the ball, it's that Canon may have contractual agreements with other companies to delay a certain type of a camera until a given date. As of now, Panasonic has four different 4K cameras for under $2,000 (GH4, FZ1000, LS100 and a just announced G7) and no other Japanese camera manufacturer has even a single model (unless you count that crippled 15 fps Nikon J5), so it's pretty obvious that the technological development travels on one road and the marketing department on another.

PS. Hypothetically speaking, had the Chinese decided to jump into the photo-video market with both feet, they could create a major market disturbance. According to IEEE, costs of the camera component inside a smartphone for the top models such as Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy are in between $17 and $20. Obviously, other parts are responsible for a variety of functions and the entry level point-n-shoots are basically these smartphone cameras packaged into a separate body for under $100, but it seems to me that, in a competitive environment, mid-level to pro cameras would be 50% lower priced.

Of course, smartphones are a much bigger business and that's where so much money and R&D is headed. But this price discrepancy is also why smartphones are eating the ILC market in huge chunks and the revenues of the photo-video divisions of these Japanese companies are on a steep downslope.
 
4K is not a technical problem for the sensors or the processors, is the data size and storage is causing the problem for internal 4K recording

None of the high speed+ capacity storage cards are at reasonable price for consumer market. Say 2 years ago to record canon 4K422-24fps for example. just 5-6 nos of 1333X CF cards( 3hrs recording) will be the same price as a 5D3. Lets say I have the same money spend on CF cards as on the 1DC.
This year the price of the storage have halfed, making it more reasonable to implement 4K for the 5D

The Panasonic 4k cameras ( actually they have 2 action camera and various $1000-1500 view cam in additional to the 4 camera mentioned above.) and Gopro 4 and NX1 use a relatively highly compressed and low bit rate format, which may not be acceptable for many demanding user for serious post-processing, that is why they can use SD card for storage. The actual file size from these camera tell clearly show why.

Cost of Cfast and other faster format storage is still at a very high price currently, buy the enough storage of production will be more of a problem than baying the camera
 
cookinghusband said:
4K is not a technical problem for the sensors or the processors, is the data size and storage is causing the problem for internal 4K recording ...
Click to expand...
There's no problem. If Panasonic can do this, anyone can do this for roughly the same price.

As to data rate, NX1's "pro" quality is 80 Mbps in H265, which is roughly ProRes Standard at 500 Mps. Using the same ratios, a 120 Mbps in H265 should give a ProRes 422 HQ (750 Mpbs), which is more than sufficient for most uses. And 120 Mbps shouldn't be a problem nowadays, considering that GH4 can record in 200 Mbps (in H264 1080p, but that's irrelevant) already.

And the new SDXC cards have high enough speeds for that.
 
Samir Patel said:
Ok so now that we have the news regarding the C300 mark II, I am thinking about what I really could use in a camera. I love what I am reading about the mark II but the price doesn't work for me. Sure it would work if I used the camera daily for business but I am kind of between a few different businesses so let me explain.

I grew up in a video/advertising background but currently am in the real estate industry. I find myself carrying a DSLR more than I would carry a video camera mainly because to me stills are more important in my business. I can use them on my business website, listings, blog etc. I own a 5D3 and the video was great the day I bought it but lets face it its fuzzy and ML RAW is just a pain in my ass (I had it working for a while but recently when I updated to the latest build it started crashing on me so I just removed it from my camera) not considering it is only 1080p. If I am shooting video today I want to be able to archive real estate video for the future and eventually re-encode for 4K when it is more adopted by viewers.

So I bought a GH4. I've been playing around with it but there is something about the colors which I'm still trying to work though, I love the canon colors. The other problem is that I don't want to carry two cameras at all times - the 5D for stills for full frame and GH4 for video.

So I keep thinking about the 1DC. Maybe that would settle everything. But then I keep remembering that I am still stuck with using the Zacuto loop on that camera when I am shooting video not to mention the camera is old in the tooth.

WHAT I REALLY WANT:
Give me a 1DC Mark II at an affordable price with an Electronic viewfinder. I think that would work. I hear a lot of people complaining that the C300v2 is not ergonomically correct. I tend to find that I am most comfortable when I can hold a camera up to my eye. I probably would love the C300v2 but I need to shoot stills more than video.

Do you think we will ever get a Full Frame camera which shoots large stills with an electronic view finder which will also shoot 4K video internally?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

The next iteration of the Sony A7S will probably do internal 4k, like the GH4.
 
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