Official Sony NEX-VG10 Thread

steventimothy said:
I guarantee you that Sony didn't leave out 24p because it costs more to have it... that's just simple programming
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I didn't mean costs. I meant the same as you - they had to cripple it in some way to position it as a consumer line product - they can't make it just 720p or kick the mic, so they probably thought let's not give it variable framerates and XLR inputs.
They ended up with something airy-fairy.
 
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stip said:
I didn't mean costs. I meant the same as you - they had to cripple it in some way to position it as a consumer line product - they can't make it just 720p or kick the mic, so they probably thought let's not give it variable framerates and XLR inputs.
They ended up with something airy-fairy.
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Exactly, and they're still stuck in the framerate mode in terms of crippling, just like for the last 10 years.

I just hope Canon (and Nikon) step up their games with DSLR video, since Canon probably has fairly small profits in their pro video division compared to their photo/DSLR/lens divison (and Nikon has no pro video division).

For every $8,999 Canon XL-H1S they probably sell 20 Canon 5D's along with several lenses. I hallucinate that's why they can tell their video division to suck it up.

Sony and Panasonic don't have that luxury. If Vitaliy hadn't enhanced the GH-1, it would still be the crippled unit that Panny's pro division mandated it be.
 
ARE YOU F**KING KIDDING ME! This introduction of this camera by Sony is great news. PERIOD!

Of course it has limitations, but I have to ask, who here has a single camera that is perfect camera for EVERY possible video production situation? Anyone... "Bueller?"...

I don't know if many of you were around, or remember, but, for the most part, we are all really here because Sony consumer video division introduced, 16 years ago, a new consumer Digital Video camera, the VX-1000. While it was very far from "Perfect", that camera changed everything, in video production and in the independent filmmaking movement. Ever since then, enterprising video producers have been wrangling and man-handling less than perfect cameras into making great images, and telling stories that have not been told before. Anybody else remember all the buzz around the HV-20? Anyone... "Bueller?"... I am not saying that this camera from Sony will change everything, again, but, f**k me, it is another tool in the video tool box, with some very nice new capabilities. Why can't we just be glad for that?

I for one am not likely to go out and buy one, but I am glad that it is going to be out there. As far as run and gun documentary productions that need a little stealth camera, I think that this new Sony will be hands down the camera of choice, and may beat the available video DSLRs for that. What we are seeing is the crest of a wave of a whole new bunch of cameras. Do we have to multiple snarky threads about each of them as they come out? Please no.
 
For me it seems a really great camera. I would pre-order one if I could ( currently there are no pre-orders in Germany)

I assume Sony will build on the lens system and we will see more great cameras in the future. I wonder what NAB 2011 might bring.

Definitely other manufactures like Panasonic will follow with affordable large sensor cameras.
 
hpmoon said:
My gosh. I expected to come here finding field-smart professionals, but all the Sony hate here sounds like the usual routine on tech forums where people basically shoot down anything that doesn't match what they own (perhaps because the memory of what they bought is too recently burned into their brains, and their wallets).

Is this an attempt at humor?
That post is so riddled with erroneous and misleading information that it must be some sort of prank!

24p is dead?
I guess the last century of film making is now irrelevant?
Turn on your TV - name any dramatic program, A-List documentary or music video that is NOT 24p!
24p is as much about motion rendition and the emotional response it evokes in 99% of viewers as it is about any lingering tie-back to "obsolete" celluloid.
And FCP a "dinosaur"? ... let's wait for Apple's next upgrade before issuing such naive statements :)
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24p is a cinematic standard based on the technical evolution of movie film. Where the minimum frame rate for the illusion of motion seemed to be 24 fps.

But it's not technically "better" than 30P.
Far from it. If you take a movie like "Inception" and slowed down the frames so that you could study each one individually, you'd see that only 20% of the frames were actually "sharp". The rest of the movie has motion blur artifacts from the 1/48 shutter 24fps shooting. It's really a blurry mess but a great movie for other reasons.

If your client wants 24p, then this camera is not for you. If you want 24p then this camera is not for you. But if you like 30P, then who cares right? Make movies for yourself cuz its what you like, not what other people tell you.

One day, let's hope 30P (or an even higher 60P?) will be the accepted cinema standard because technically speaking, it's just better.
 
dadoboy said:
24p is a cinematic standard based on the technical evolution of movie film. Where the minimum frame rate for the illusion of motion seemed to be 24 fps.

But it's not technically "better" than 30P.
Far from it. If you take a movie like "Inception" and slowed down the frames so that you could study each one individually, you'd see that only 20% of the frames were actually "sharp". The rest of the movie has motion blur artifacts from the 1/48 shutter 24fps shooting. It's really a blurry mess but a great movie for other reasons.

If your client wants 24p, then this camera is not for you. If you want 24p then this camera is not for you. But if you like 30P, then who cares right? Make movies for yourself cuz its what you like, not what other people tell you.

One day, let's hope 30P (or an even higher 60P?) will be the accepted cinema standard because technically speaking, it's just better.
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agreed... except for the last part. 30p can be accepted for whatever reason but 30p is not better. (nor 24p is better. its a personal preerence)
 
Michael Olsen said:
I'm pretty sure that everything on my TV is either 480p30 or 1080i60. So...everything?
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alot of it is wrapped in 60i.. thats why a lot of consumer cams release 24p on 60i stream whichmeans a lot of people produce work on 24p.

unless you're watching 720 24p on HD :D

now stop being hostile you cant convert people who love 24p to 30p no matter what. Arguing is pointless
 
David G. Smith said:
...Of course it has limitations, but I have to ask, who here has a single camera that is perfect camera for EVERY possible video production situation?
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The amount (and quality) of work I was able to accomplish on the HVX200 sure surprised me. It rarely let me down and I miss it.

I have even higher expectations for the AF100.

The NEX might not have the pro feature-set we'd like to see, but neither do Flips or any of the other tools we use in our work. I think some cameras come closer than others, but this thing will quickly find use as another cool "toy camera" in a shooter's tool box.
 
dcloud said:
now stop being hostile you cant convert people who love 24p to 30p no matter what. Arguing is pointless
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No attempt to be hostile - I actually shoot 24p whenever possible. I was simply pointing out a bit of logical error in using TV broadcast as example of the ubiquitous nature of 24p when it isn't.
 
I really don't understand what is the bid different between 50i an 25P, its not the same when editing the the appropriate project (AVID for example)?
 
Bali demo

Bali demo

I was almost sold on this camera....
Even with adding dual-system audio it's still cheaper than the AF-100.
Then I watched the Beautiful Bali demo on Vimeo...
Blech!
Vomit!

It might just be the Vimeo funking with it, but it sure looks like 60i to me, or some horrible perversion of 30p.
It just looks CHEAP.
Now I have a sad :(
 
Michael Olsen said:
I'm pretty sure that everything on my TV is either 480p30 or 1080i60. So...everything?
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I'm referring to acquisition, not distribution.
The majority of dramatic, documentary and music material that is considered high quality and high end is shot 24p/25p
60i/50i just looks and feels CHEAP, with the exception of news and sport of course :)
 
Confessions from an ex-Panasonic 25P Nazi & eternal Sony hater...

I'm not too concerned about 24P/25P as 90% of my end users are brides & grooms who just want a well-made & emotive film of their wedding day (emphasis on storytelling over frame rate & measurebatory resolution specs) furthermore, juddery 24/25P video is out of the question regardless of it's filmic cadence.

What I love about this camera is the form-factor - using a DSLR body to shoot run & gun video is totally awkward. Furthermore, anyone making quality event productions should be using outboard sound to capture audio so the lack of XLRs is not a deal breaker here either.

My biggest disappointment with this model however, is the lack of imager-based OIS as I have a swag of really nice Nikon f2.8 zooms & primes that for reasons of practicality will probably never mate with this camera :(

I would definitely consider this model based on the convenience of it's form-factor and low ambient light sensitivity, but let's see what the Australian price will be (in the UK it will retail around $3,000USD) :Drogar-Mark-01(DBG)
 
Evro said:
Confessions from an ex-Panasonic 25P Nazi & eternal Sony hater...

I'm not too concerned about 24P/25P as 90% of my end users are brides & grooms who just want a well-made & emotive film of their wedding day (emphasis on storytelling over frame rate & measurebatory resolution specs) furthermore, juddery 24/25P video is out of the question regardless of it's filmic cadence.

What I love about this camera is the form-factor - using a DSLR body to shoot run & gun video is totally awkward. Furthermore, anyone making quality event productions should be using outboard sound to capture audio so the lack of XLRs is not a deal breaker here either.

My biggest disappointment with this model however, is the lack of imager-based OIS as I have a swag of really nice Nikon f2.8 zooms & primes that for reasons of practicality will probably never mate with this camera :(

I would definitely consider this model based on the convenience of it's form-factor and low ambient light sensitivity, but let's see what the Australian price will be (in the UK it will retail around $3,000USD) :Drogar-Mark-01(DBG)
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Agreed on the Nikon issue - I would love to mount my Nikon glass on this camera or whatever Canon puts out as a competitor, but I'm afraid it will be up to the third parties to devise the Adaptors.
On the issue of 24p/25p - if the general public views your work as "juddery" then perhaps you're not approaching it properly... nobody says mainstream and blockbuster movies are juddery.
24p/25p is "primitive", yes, but it evokes an emotional response as long as you shoot within the technical limitations.
 
I look at it this way, would a bride and groom like their look to resemble a cinematic feature or the news/sports event :) I know what I would pick!
 
grimepoch said:
I look at it this way, would a bride and groom like their look to resemble a cinematic feature or the news/sports event :) I know what I would pick!
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Well there is a lot more to making a "Cinematic" look then just 24p. I am not saying that this little Sony has that "More", though. I wouldn't purchase an HD camera that did not have 24p, among other other frame rates, but I would be willing to bet that Sony has done enough market research to decide that the market segment they want to sell this camera too does not really give a rat's behind about 24p.
 
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